Maybe,,,i should leave appstore now as a developer...

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by adot777, May 12, 2010.

  1. adot777

    adot777 Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2009
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    #1 adot777, May 12, 2010
    Last edited: May 18, 2010
    now, many companies develop more great games for iPhone, iTouch, iPad,
    they have money to employ developers, to popular, to advertise, as well they
    have a great brand. at the same time as a developer of other country, not in
    the United State, we have no enough competitive strength in these field but our game's quality.

    so the personal developers, or small dev teams should leave appstore right now.

    i have spent more than 4 months(full-time) to develop a new game 2012: Elements, and was out on appstore at 30,apirl,2010.

    yeah, i try following methods to popular this game.
    1. give promo code here, and other sites.
    2. request TA, 148APPs,SlidePlay, appsafari, etc to write a review
    (some of them dont replay you. some need work with money, so this method looks like having nothing helps)
    3. make a gameplay video,and share it on Youtube, facebook.
    4. drop this game price.

    i try all of these methods, but the sale still badly.

    so i think the chance to our games getting hit for personal developer will
    never be happened, even you have developed a perfect game.

    and i think wether it's time to leave appstore right now for personal developers, especially for the developers not at United State.

    and where i can go ?
     
  2. The prez 12521

    The prez 12521 Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2009
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    Don't quit unless you need the money to survive. Game deving is a gamble, but it can be very well worth it. And so what about big companies. Gameloft releases some AWFUL unfinished games whereas EA doesn't even release games! Indie devs make the store. If your good at your job, you can find a nice publisher or such like chillingo. If your really good you can work for something like ea in your country.

    Don't give up until you reach rock bottom. You just want to pull your parachute. Don't.
     
  3. eJayStudios

    eJayStudios Well-Known Member

    Oct 17, 2009
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    Hey, don't give up! Many of us are not happy with the sales, so you are not alone. I guess majority are not happy and only few are laughing all way to the bank. :)

    You've mentioned that you did work full time on it, if this is true than I understand your pain. Did you quit your day job or are you student/unemployed?

    Just check what market really wants and make more simple (and somewhat stupid) games and you never know, you might get lucky.
     
  4. ArtCoder

    ArtCoder Well-Known Member

    #4 ArtCoder, May 12, 2010
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
    I think you shouldn't quit just because one game is not selling as you expected. Keep promoting it and updating it if you think it's got potential, or just move one to your next project. Maybe the next one will work better.

    You shouldn't generalize like that. There are lots examples of independent developers producing hits on the App Store. And you don't necessarily need your game to be a hit. You must have realistic expectations.

    We're from outside the US too (Argentina), and we're yet to release one game that can be considered a hit, but we're doing ok nontheless. I think the key is to hope for a huge hit, but not to count on it. Put enough time and effort in your game so that you'll be compensated well enough even if your game just has average sales. If you invest a lot of resources assuming your game will be a hit, you're up for a major disappointment.

    Also (and I'm sorry if it sounds a bit harsh), have you considered that maybe you haven't developed a "perfect game"? Maybe your game's not selling because people don't like it very much... Or maybe you're not communicating it the right way.

    I clicked the link on you signature and had a look at the videos, screens and description of your game. To be honest, my first impression was "Inkvaders clone". If it's not, you should try to convey that more strongly. What makes your game stand appart from other side-scrolling shooters?

    Another problem may be your game's name and icon. Honestly, "2012 Elements USA" means nothing. I even didn't get the reference to year 2012 until I read the description. Your icon could also use some work. While it's well drawn, it's not very good as an Icon. (Try something with more contrast, warmer colors, a clear silhouette and get rid of the default shine). Bear in mind that most people will let an app pass unless its name and icon attract them.

    One last point. You should have your description checked by a native English speaker. I'm not and a quick look was enough for me to notice several mistakes and awkwardly written phrases.

    I hope this helps you a bit! I know you may be discouraged, but try to hang in there :) Maybe try asking other devs here for help on making your game better or, if you prefer to move on, things to pay attention to for your next one.
     
  5. mean_monkey

    mean_monkey Well-Known Member

    Feb 27, 2009
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    I have strong reason to believe that consumers of the appStore is not actually looking for a "perfect" game. On the contrary, actually i think app store is really the place where "imperfect" games shines. Theres a lot of successful "stick man" or sketch figure games in the app Store, compared to for example NDS, PSP or any other consoles.

    We are also from outside of the US too (Indonesia), released two games so far and one of them is not doing good at all atm.
     
  6. S.I.D. CrAzY

    S.I.D. CrAzY Well-Known Member

    May 16, 2009
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    It's a shame Defender Chronicles isn't selling better, it's my favorite tower defense game and in my overall top 3 favorite games in the App Store.

    Speaking of PSP, do you plan on porting it to the PSP?

    I read something on the DC forums, but it didn't seem the platforms you guys wanted to port the game to was decided yet.
     
  7. iMario

    iMario Well-Known Member

    There are so many apps on the store, you'll have to create something unique now. Look at simple games like Fruit Ninja for example, don't think the developer of that game is very big (?) and they do real well.

    Create something unique, with an added network like Plus+, OpenFeint, Crystal etc. You can still do this!
     
  8. EssentialParadox

    EssentialParadox Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    #8 EssentialParadox, May 12, 2010
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
    I had a look at your thread — why are giving away so many promo codes? On the first page of your game topic you're offering 30 free codes for anyone who PMs you; I don't feel this is the right way to encourage sales.

    Giving away copies seems to be a popular promotion method for App store devs, not because it's effective, but because it's one of the few things available for developers on iTunes Connect and I think some developers cling to it as some sort of outlet for promotion. But, the problem with giving away promo codes so carelessly and alongside your primary methods of promotion (forum threads), is that people get the impression they don't need to buy the game; even if they're unable to get one of the first few promo codes, they can easily assume there will be more, or that the game will release for free eventually. It's very dangerous to be liberal with the value of your game; I believe you should pick a fair price and stick to it, even when sales are slow.

    I don't think your game is bad actually — I feel your problem isn't the market, but your marketing. I would suggest a clear marketing campaign focusing on an aspect of the game, whether it's the lead character, the main enemy, or some other aspect of the game. All games need a hook, whether it's a feat of stunning graphics, never-done-before openworldness, presents a huge challenge like GeoDefense, offers an innovative control scheme, or just a humorous focus on a big joke about the game. Scribblenauts is a great example of a simple-looking game but the developers pushed its "draw anything" mechanic and got huge press from that. Any sort of spin you can do to give gaming bloggers a hook to talk about is what you're aiming for. You can achieve this sort of thing by teaming up with a promoter or marketer.

    Don't give up just yet!
     
  9. adot777

    adot777 Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2009
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    it's seem to I have reach rock bottom right row...:confused:
     
  10. adot777

    adot777 Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2009
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    1. innovative control scheme
    2. humorous

    yeah,these are important... thanks your great suggestion.
     
  11. adot777

    adot777 Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2009
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    chillingo is a publishedr, maybe i can try to make contract with this company.
     
  12. adot777

    adot777 Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2009
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    hoho, we're not alone~~~:cool:
     
  13. adot777

    adot777 Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2009
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    "just move one to your next project. Maybe the next one will work better" that sounds nice。

    “Bear in mind that most people will let an app pass unless its name and icon attract them.
    ”
    you are right~~


    in a word, your suggestions are very useful for personal developers.
     
  14. sureshvs

    sureshvs Well-Known Member

    A game can have one of two issues: a) it's a bad / average game to start with, or b) it's a good game, but not being marketed well. Looking at the responses to the thread on your game, it looks like people are enjoying your game quite a bit. And many of them liked your art style too. So, judging from their response, it looks like you've got a good game on hand. And that's a huge relief, coz, it shows you understand how to work on 'gameplay'.

    Which brings us to the 2nd issue, and fortunately a far more manageable issue - marketing. You'll find some great threads right here on TA from other devs on what they did. The most important take away from all their experience is this - marketing is not a "one day activity". It's a "continuous process". It's not something for you to check off a list saying "send emails to blogs, check. post on forums, check. k, where's my sales now?"

    It's a continuous process that you'll have to work on everyday to get the word out there. And the good thing is, you have a good game to start with.

    So, don't give up so soon. Your game's been out there for just 12 days now. You're not (yet :) Valve or Blizzard to have people download your game by the millions on day one. Give it more time, stick with it, spend more time on marketing your game. Best of luck!
     
  15. adot777

    adot777 Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2009
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    yeah, it just 12 days now, later i will spend time on marketing my game, and Good luck to your games.
     
  16. Astraware

    Astraware Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2010
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    It can take a while for anything to happen. We didn't get our current feature placements for OddBlob from Apple until a couple of weeks after the iPad had been released, and the game was originally out for iPhone on 1st March.

    You can do all the things you're supposed to - demo videos, press release, reviews, promo code contests, blog pieces, forum posts etc etc and still not get a lot of attention, but if the posts you do get about the game are positive, just keep trying. Sometimes Apple will pick up and feature a game weeks after release, if it gets attention from somewhere else first. Sometimes you won't get any featuring from Apple, but your marketing efforts will pay off in a different way.

    Best of luck with your game. Hope things pick up for you soon!
     
  17. MrBlue

    MrBlue Well-Known Member

    Sep 3, 2008
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    #17 MrBlue, May 12, 2010
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
    I'll offer a different point of view than the other guys here. I too planned my exit strategy towards the end of last year. After about 1.5 yrs in the app store, it was about time to move on.

    I thought of several ways out.

    There are still plenty of people with money trying to get a piece of the app store. Maybe look at getting a contract to build an app for someone else. This is somewhat harder to do if you reside in the US. But if you live in a place where the COL is lower, your bids can be attractive. Your game looks a ton better than most portfolios I've seen. This is a much surer way to make a living from the App Store.

    My second option was to join an existing, larger iPhone dev shop. I found that there are several here in the NYC area. Although I've never contacted any directly, I was told that good devs are always in demand. With some experience and an existing product, you'll get a leg up on most other applicants.

    My third option was to go back to wall street as a software dev. The worst is over and many banks are hiring again. Despite my linkedin profile being years out of date and updated to show that I'm no longer in the industry, I still get unsolicited messages all the time. Continued networking with old colleagues is always a good thing to do as well.

    4th option. My original business partner decided going back to school was the better move. He applied and got into a top 15 MBA program. I wrote some of his recommendations and detailed how we quit our 6 figure jobs nearly 3 years ago to try out various different ventures. He's convinced that his non-cookie cutter background helped him get into a good school.

    I always figured this industry would start to consolidate last year, but it didn't really happen. Maybe this year it will. I don't think the app store is growing fast enough for the number of devs that want in.
     
  18. Stroffolino

    Stroffolino Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Apr 28, 2009
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    #18 Stroffolino, May 12, 2010
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
    reality check

    I actually think that it is encouraging that reality is setting in for many developers, and some are considering leaving. The AppStore is currently way too crowded for everyone throwing their hat into the ring to make a living. There's such a flood of apps coming out each day that a new good game can get burried deep in the new release list within 24 hours.

    There's still plenty of money to be made, but it's exponentially concentrated into the apps that are featured and/or top-ranked. Looking at other trends (current iPad AppStore structure and comments from the IGN editor they hired), everything points to a future where Apple steer people directly to the apps they want people to buy, and new apps that don't quite meet their threshold remain invisible.

    I wouldn't recommend that anyone invest time/money in a multi-month project unless they've got some name brand IP to back it up, or are doing it for the love of the project.

    A data point - consider the following apps I've put out since 2008:

    "Xiangqi Chinese Chess"
    "Card Shark" - a collection of card games
    "Hurdler" - licensed IP from the folk at TheGamesPage
    "Sniper Vs. Pirates" - action game released barely a week after the infamous incident with Somalia, mentioned in numerous blogs
    "Bug Juice" - one of the first grotesque and realistic bug squashing apps
    "Karate Fighter" - unofficial remake of Kung Fu Master
    "Pocket Boxer" - unofficial remake of PunchOut
    "Angry Vicky Viper" - a beautifully animated, fun action game with novel gameplay

    Some are sexier than others. Some have received major updates. Almost all the newer ones are loaded with OpenFeint leaderboards and achievements.

    Of the lot, only one's ever been featured by Apple - Hurdler.

    Only one has gotten a passing mention on the front page of TA (Karate Fighter).

    Vicky currently has more OpenFeint users than actual downloads. Piracy? Who knows.

    Of these apps, the only one that has seen an extended period of triple digit sales is Card Shark. No marketing, no hype, and the app I'd have least expected to do well.

    Everything else I've put out has typically gotten a nice little burst of downloads on opening day, then quickly trickled down to single digit sales.

    I used to at least get a bump in downloads when putting out major updates, largely because Apple used to put updated apps in the new release category, but these days I've yet to see an update make any difference in sales no matter what it improved/changed.

    I've got a ton of stuff still in development, including a handful of brand spanking new apps on the verge of being submitted, and don't plan to stop anytime soon. Putting everything in perspective, I've always enjoyed doing game programming as a hobby, and it's great having such a huge potential audience to share things with. Any income from Apple is just icing on the cake.
     
  19. The prez 12521

    The prez 12521 Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2009
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    nahhh. If your desperate, dont do your own ideas YET. Maybe make a game people WANT. Like make a thread asking for games and such. Or you can create/join an app developing team. Then, when your name is out and about with good apps, release YOUR ideas and greatness, and watch it SHINE!
     
  20. AssyriaGameStudio

    AssyriaGameStudio Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    Ok,
    Well we have developed 5 different apps (soon to be 6) for the App store, and each following App has sold better than the last and 2 out of the 5 this far have been featured... So here is my advice/ what we learnt from that process

    Marketing/ Add space - DONT DO IT. Purchasing of add space we have tried and spent in excess of £2000/$4000 on, with no increase in sales. Strongly not advised.

    PR - I highly reccomend you hire a PR company or representative... This does not have to be expensive. We use Indie Developer Consulting who are quite good. They will craft a press release, and distribute it to 600+ press, as well as handling promo code distribution. I have alot of respect for indie developer consulting to be honest as they could sheild the journalists away from us so we dont "go around them" but they dont... They got us a eurogamer review, and I'm now in quite regular contact with their reviewer who may be able to help us out in the future, and is a decent bloke! Their charges for new clients start at $125 per release - Strongly Reccomended.

    Promo Code Givaways - As mentioned, dont give away tons unless it's just out of generosity, it wont improve your sales... I gave away 20 when out update was approved simply as this community on TA has been quite decent and supportive, so I just wanted to give away a few free copies. What will help is a few nice reviews/ a bunch of ratings... So if you give away a few then ask for the guys to rate the application and possibally write a quick review if they have time. What I would perhaps instead advise if feeding it into the PR side and running some form of competition to raise awareness/ gain some exposure.

    Get to know Apple - The Apple 3rd party guys are at many of the conferences (E3, GDC etc). Find a confence or event one of them is going to be at... Go to it and TALK TO THEM. Buy them a beer, just be casual and not pushy about the business side of things, most of them are incredibally cool... Then when you have a release coming shoot them a quick e-mail and see if they can do you a favour... Some of the most useful guys to our business are also my closest friends in the industry and if you are able to do them the occassional favour/ buy them the occassional beer then chances are they will be more than happy to reciprocate when needed.


    Alternative markets:

    For anyone dead set on leaving the App Store, I would reccoment PSP Minis which I hear are selling quite well and have a similar "quick QA process" to the App store, or the Intel Atom App Store, as the Intel guys are running all sorts of competitions to try steal developers from the App store and seem to be pushing it quite hard...
     

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