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  #21  
Old 01-11-2012, 03:53 AM
VonWillebrand VonWillebrand is offline
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I've been a big fan on MadFingerGames until now. I don't care if there are price drops after launch. Developers need to make money to continue making iOS-games and the way people are complaining about anything priced more than 0.99$ we'll probably get less and less complex console quality games. However, what I don't like is A. Making multiplayer freemium B. Making it an Android exclusive. Then again, both points are probably due to people complaining about the price. You can easily spend 10$ on fast food but somehow iOS-games should all be 0.99$? Not to mention how much PS3/Xbox360 games cost...
  #22  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:19 AM
Booch138 Booch138 is offline
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Originally Posted by VonWillebrand View Post
I've been a big fan on MadFingerGames until now. I don't care if there are price drops after launch. Developers need to make money to continue making iOS-games and the way people are complaining about anything priced more than 0.99$ we'll probably get less and less complex console quality games. However, what I don't like is A. Making multiplayer freemium B. Making it an Android exclusive. Then again, both points are probably due to people complaining about the price. You can easily spend 10$ on fast food but somehow iOS-games should all be 0.99$? Not to mention how much PS3/Xbox360 games cost...
Then there are those that are complaining, not about the price, but the fact that we were told that a particular service or content would be available as a free update in the app that we paid for in full. If they had not mentioned that at all, it wouldn't have left such a sour taste in my mouth. I knew what I signed up for when I hit the "Purchase" button. It does, however, strike me in a very vile way when they say that MP is coming as a free update, and that is the understood thing. Essentially (as I see it), they are telling people who are wary to spend the money on the app, or are hesitant to purchase it because of a lack of MP, to "If you want MP in the app as well, go ahead and buy it! It will come 'Someday'". And that is incredibly shady. And now they are releasing a separate app for MP all of the sudden because integrating it into the existing app made the process "Slow" and "Complex"?

Look I don't even care if it's free or $15. That's not the point, the point is that we were told one thing and now they are leading a different path. I completely understand that variables happen, and things you cannot predict or account for, happen all the time. I get that. But this was all just handled... in the worst way I guess.

I dunno.
  #23  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:32 AM
lumothesinner lumothesinner is offline
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From the sounds of it they were going to include it as an update, but "things got complicated" so they had to make it separate. At least its going to be free still, just not an update.

Personally I'm not pissed off that I paid launch price for Shadowgun, i thought it was a great looking and playing game, and that was before they even mentioned multiplayer. What I am annoyed about is that this like so many other premium games has to settle on a lower price to get noticed.

As long as the IAPs dont screw up the game (take note from bullet time) This could be great, as free means many many more players will get the chance to play it.
  #24  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:45 AM
gfxdaddy gfxdaddy is offline
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I bought the game--again, at full launch price before they dropped it--with the promise that there would be a multiplayer update. This would be a classic bait-and-switch if they do not keep their word, and they will have lost a fan. It's not about the money.

[EDIT] To be clear, I'm not complaining about price...and I don't think anyone like me who paid the full launch price for the game could possibly be misconstrued as complaining--after all, we were happy to pay the $8. My point is, the price was paid contingent on promised updates--including multiplayer--and now, after we handed over our money we're told that it may not be coming.

That's not cool.

On the topic of game pricing, I'm not a freemium fan either. I'd happily pay $5 to $10+ for a good FULL game (as I've done with Dead Space, Infinity Blades 1 and 2, FIFA Soccer, Street Fighter, and several more). Sadly freemium appears to be here to stay.

Last edited by gfxdaddy; 01-11-2012 at 10:16 AM..
  #25  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:56 AM
Madman100 Madman100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumothesinner View Post
From the sounds of it they were going to include it as an update, but "things got complicated" so they had to make it separate. At least its going to be free still, just not an update.

Personally I'm not pissed off that I paid launch price for Shadowgun, i thought it was a great looking and playing game, and that was before they even mentioned multiplayer. What I am annoyed about is that this like so many other premium games has to settle on a lower price to get noticed.

As long as the IAPs dont screw up the game (take note from bullet time) This could be great, as free means many many more players will get the chance to play it.
Very good points. Personally, if I like the developer I'd prefer to see them make as much money as possible so long as I'm enjoying their games.

--

I am not disappointed. Plus there are positives that people have mentioned, instead of this being an enormous update that doubles the file size, it is now a free app. So if you have gotten bored of it and deleted the original game (I haven't), this might be good for you. Also, the online community is sure to be a lot more active than if this were an update to the original game.

And yes, I do understand the reason some people are upset. But I do hope this app does well for MADFINGER, they certainly deserve it, IMO. And they aren't being shady about it, they visited this forum to explain it to us.
  #26  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:00 AM
lumothesinner lumothesinner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfxdaddy View Post
I bought the game--again, at full launch price before they dropped it--with the promise that there would be a multiplayer update. This would be a classic bait-and-switch if they do not keep their word, and they will have lost a fan. It's not about the money.
I thought what is with all these people who bought it just because of the promise of multiplayer, and in the first week at the high price...then noticed that multiplayer update was announced only 2 days after release

I thought there was at least a month and a sale inbetween release and multiplayer announcement...I am completely on your side now as it was clearly a way to drum up sales and support the dev, but have not followed through with the promise and instead granted everyone access, whether they supported the dev or not.
  #27  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:10 AM
GoofyJmaster. GoofyJmaster. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumothesinner View Post
I thought what is with all these people who bought it just because of the promise of multiplayer, and in the first week at the high price...then noticed that multiplayer update was announced only 2 days after release

I thought there was at least a month and a sale inbetween release and multiplayer announcement...I am completely on your side now as it was clearly a way to drum up sales and support the dev, but have not followed through with the promise and instead granted everyone access, whether they supported the dev or not.
Personally, I'm not upset that it isn't a update because it does decrease file size. However, I was expecting a premium multiplayer experience. An IAP riddled multiplayer is not a premium experience IMHO.
  #28  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:34 AM
gfxdaddy gfxdaddy is offline
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Originally Posted by GoofyJmaster. View Post
...However, I was expecting a premium multiplayer experience. An IAP riddled multiplayer is not a premium experience IMHO.
Very good point.
  #29  
Old 01-11-2012, 12:17 PM
squarezero squarezero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofyJmaster. View Post
Personally, I'm not upset that it isn't a update because it does decrease file size. However, I was expecting a premium multiplayer experience. An IAP riddled multiplayer is not a premium experience IMHO.
No offense, but that sounds almost insane to me. Why would anyone expect a premium multiplayer experience for free? From a small indie developer without the resources of Gameloft or EA?

Okay, before I go on a rant, let me make something clear: I've known Marek from Madfinger for years, ever since I helped him beta test the first Samurai game (met him here at TA, as a matter of fact). I respect his work and that of his team, and I consider him something of an online friend. I'm obviously biased here, though I don't think that that invalidates my perspective. Obviously anyone who thinks so should stop reading this right about now.

Here's a reality check: Madfinger is a tiny outfit in Eastern Europe. They self-publish their work and currently have 4 games under their belt (and one was a silly Christmas mini-game). They've basically broken even on most of their games, which is better than many iOS developers but nowhere near "striking it rich in the App Store." Most of their revenues go into creating better games for our favorite platform -- that means that everything they do has to be monetized, or they simply have to shut down their doors. It's really that simple.

They promised multiplayer for Shadowgun and they've found a way to deliver it. Clearly NVidea paid for a chunk of it; the rest will come from whatever IAP method they device. They could certainly end up with an Eliminate-type system that would utterly suck. If that's the case, I'll be the first one to come here and give them crap about it. Or they could come up with a reasonable system that provides them with revenue but remains fairly unobtrusive to most players (i.e. hats for sale). At this point we don't know for sure. But anyone who thought that MP would be premium-grade and 100% free is either naive or smoking something funny.

The other complaint (that it's not an "update" but a separate free app) is hard to take very seriously. I mean, what's really the issue? That MP is not exclusive for those who bought the single player campaign? Really? Don't people realize that MP gets better when you expand the player pool?

Frankly, I thought that the Tegra exclusivity deal would have been the biggest issue with Madfinger's announcement. I guess I underestimated folks capacity for finding ridiculous things to get upset about.
  #30  
Old 01-11-2012, 12:44 PM
GoofyJmaster. GoofyJmaster. is offline
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Originally Posted by squarezero View Post
No offense, but that sounds almost insane to me. Why would anyone expect a premium multiplayer experience for free? From a small indie developer without the resources of Gameloft or EA?

Okay, before I go on a rant, let me make something clear: I've known Marek from Madfinger for years, ever since I helped him beta test the first Samurai game (met him here at TA, as a matter of fact). I respect his work and that of his team, and I consider him something of an online friend. I'm obviously biased here, though I don't think that that invalidates my perspective. Obviously anyone who thinks so should stop reading this right about now.

Here's a reality check: Madfinger is a tiny outfit in Eastern Europe. They self-publish their work and currently have 4 games under their belt (and one was a silly Christmas mini-game). They've basically broken even on most of their games, which is better than many iOS developers but nowhere near "striking it rich in the App Store." Most of their revenues go into creating better games for our favorite platform -- that means that everything they do has to be monetized, or they simply have to shut down their doors. It's really that simple.

They promised multiplayer for Shadowgun and they've found a way to deliver it. Clearly NVidea paid for a chunk of it; the rest will come from whatever IAP method they device. They could certainly end up with an Eliminate-type system that would utterly suck. If that's the case, I'll be the first one to come here and give them crap about it. Or they could come up with a reasonable system that provides them with revenue but remains fairly unobtrusive to most players (i.e. hats for sale). At this point we don't know for sure. But anyone who thought that MP would be premium-grade and 100% free is either naive or smoking something funny.

The other complaint (that it's not an "update" but a separate free app) is hard to take very seriously. I mean, what's really the issue? That MP is not exclusive for those who bought the single player campaign? Really? Don't people realize that MP gets better when you expand the player pool?

Frankly, I thought that the Tegra exclusivity deal would have been the biggest issue with Madfinger's announcement. I guess I underestimated folks capacity for finding ridiculous things to get upset about.
Ughhh...I did find it to be somewhat biased bit laced with valid key points that I have expressed already.

I don't expect a game that's free to not have IAP. The statement you clearly took out of context...maybe due to the biased-ness. I expected a premium MP when I originally bought Shadowgun. This is what I meant! A freemium MP is obviously NOT a premium MP, especially if the game is laced with ridiculous consumable IAP.

I've also stated on the other thread how they could make money off the game. Tiki Totems made quite a bit off of expansion packs from my understanding. Yes...I know they're different games. I frequent the dev section and other forums quite a bit and I've seen countless ideas on how to turn a profit on the AppStore. I could list a million different ways how they could make this a non-IAP whoring game. Go to the WoM forums and there are a few examples.

Yes, like you said, the game could just be based on buying IAP for aesthetic purposes. That would be awesome. However, most games take a different route, so excuse the apprehension.

As far as strictly b*tching about it being free, the concern is how the IAP play a role in the game. More people means more chances for people to buy IAP especially since it's free.

I've also stated IAP hacking seems to be quicker then regular game hacking. This isn't a fact though, so don't take it as one.

Is the indie dev argument really a valid one, especially when they broke even? This is an actual question and not a rhetorical one. And I have my reasons for asking this, so don't blow it off as some stupid comment.

Last edited by GoofyJmaster.; 01-11-2012 at 12:47 PM..

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