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  #21  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:33 PM
Werechihuahua Werechihuahua is offline
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Default PBEM is MULTI platform

Quote:
Originally Posted by hsthompson View Post
I think the biggest bugger about this is that at $50, you're talking only the grognards who are going to buy it. That means a tiny, tiny universe of people to play with.

They're still thinking in terms of "how many hours of gameplay do you get for $50", and that is much less important than "how tiny is the community when it costs $50". Yes, a rational case can be made for a high price, but the App Store, especially for games that rely on multiplayer so much, is about getting a mass audience, even if that audience isn't as massive as say, Angry Birds.
The "tiny universe" includes all the PC and Mac players. Meaning you have plenty of opponents. The Extra campaigns are cheaper by half than the PC/Mac and totally not needed to enjoy this game endlessly. The user generated content is all totally free, and is still coming at a good pace from a dedicated community. So the game doesn't "cost $50.00".

You want .99 games? there are 500,000 of them. This is a big, great, full AAA title. It costs $20 clams. Everyone makes their own value decisions a hundred times a day, but this one was very easy for me. I will get much more out of this than any 20 tower defence games. Don't get me started on the Free to Play... getting to the 2nd campaign in Spice Bandits costs at least $7.99 unless you are some sort of savant, more if you buy any spice for upgrades or costumes. Don't ask how much I spent on Tiny Tower.
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:55 PM
dreadnok dreadnok is offline
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Farmer Harv we owe you a great debt of thanks for TOFTT
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:57 PM
djflippy djflippy is offline
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Quick question: how much did you spend on Tiny Tower?

JK

This game is easily worth the price of admission, if you are a grognard. Beyond that, I don't know and I don't care.
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:00 PM
hsthompson hsthompson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werechihuahua View Post
The "tiny universe" includes all the PC and Mac players. Meaning you have plenty of opponents.
Do you have any numbers on those totals? Slitherine Field of Glory, for example has what, maybe 10,000 players worldwide, tops? 20,000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werechihuahua View Post
The user generated content is all totally free, and is still coming at a good pace from a dedicated community.
Certainly a point in their favor, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werechihuahua View Post
This is a big, great, full AAA title. It costs $20 clams. Everyone makes their own value decisions a hundred times a day, but this one was very easy for me.
Yeah, I've got thirty or forty big, great, full AAA titles I've paid less for, and not even played For me, I guess the primary concern is that such a high price mark limits the market and therefore the number of players (even if you do include mac and pc), and I'm not sure that I could commit enough of my time to wrangle $20 of value out of it, much less $50. Given that I don't have a burning hole of time I need to fill, I just sit on the sidelines until it's worth paying for *even if I never play it* Sometimes that's $0.99, sometimes that's $4.99...fairly rarely above that
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  #25  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:00 PM
jonnycache jonnycache is offline
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How much did you spend on Tiny Tower?

I love TBS but $10 for the extra campaigns on top of $20.99 is taking the michael just a little bit. $20 all in and I would have eventually relented and gone for it but $50 is ugly.

For context look at Ravenmark [$4.99] which is an excellent original TBS game that just released an entire second campaign for free.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:01 PM
Farmer Harv Farmer Harv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werechihuahua View Post
The "tiny universe" includes all the PC and Mac players. Meaning you have plenty of opponents. The Extra campaigns are cheaper by half than the PC/Mac and totally not needed to enjoy this game endlessly. The user generated content is all totally free, and is still coming at a good pace from a dedicated community. So the game doesn't "cost $50.00".

You want .99 games? there are 500,000 of them. This is a big, great, full AAA title. It costs $20 clams. Everyone makes their own value decisions a hundred times a day, but this one was very easy for me. I will get much more out of this than any 20 tower defence games. Don't get me started on the Free to Play... getting to the 2nd campaign in Spice Bandits costs at least $7.99 unless you are some sort of savant, more if you buy any spice for upgrades or costumes. Don't ask how much I spent on Tiny Tower.
While I fully appreciate that this thread is probably going to go nowhere beyond the pricing applied to the game and I hate to get embroiled in that, I do have to disagree with your statement that the game doesn't cost $50.

If I buy what I consider to be the "full" game, meaning all of the campaigns included, then my bank account will have $50 less than it did. Whether the extra three campaigns are "necessary" to enjoy the game is up to the gamer, as some people are only interested in multiplayer, while others (like my father) will never face a human opponent and may never download a user made scenario either.

I also don't think anyone here said they wanted a .99 cent game. Only that it will take a fundamental shift in the way people view the App Store if games priced at this level are going to sell more than a few copies (relatively speaking). I truely hope Slitherine does very well on iOS, but I just don't see it happening $20+++ at a time.
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  #27  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:27 PM
Farmer Harv Farmer Harv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotComCTO View Post
Looking forward to a report. I never played the Mac or PC version, so I'm rather reluctant to plunk down $20 for the game - especially since some of the reviews knock the consistency of the AI and the scripted missions (reviews seem to be something like 7-8 out of 10).

I'm wondering how close the game is to something like Battlefront's Combat Mission series. Have you ever played that?

Thanks!
--DotComCTO
Sadly not much at all like Combat Mission. I played the first three (BO, BB, AK) to death for the better part of a decade, and CM is much much deeper than Battle Academy can ever be. Not that that's a bad thing, as they're totally different designs and CM had a level of detail that was possibly overwhelming for some people.

Hmmmm. The initial 3 CM games on iOS...now how cool would that be?
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  #28  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:33 PM
djflippy djflippy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Harv View Post
While I fully appreciate that this thread is probably going to go nowhere beyond the pricing applied to the game and I hate to get embroiled in that, I do have to disagree with your statement that the game doesn't cost $50.

If I buy what I consider to be the "full" game, meaning all of the campaigns included, then my bank account will have $50 less than it did. Whether the extra three campaigns are "necessary" to enjoy the game is up to the gamer, as some people are only interested in multiplayer, while others (like my father) will never face a human opponent and may never download a user made scenario either.

I also don't think anyone here said they wanted a .99 cent game. Only that it will take a fundamental shift in the way people view the App Store if games priced at this level are going to sell more than a few copies (relatively speaking). I truely hope Slitherine does very well on iOS, but I just don't see it happening $20+++ at a time.
Well of course the thread will degenerate, if you make statements like that, lol. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please don't misrepresent the game to people. The game does not cost $50; the game costs $20 and it should be judged for the content that is included for that price.

So let's talk about the content in the game; there's a ton of different engagements, on various fields of battle, on several terrain types, with a slew of different force allocations, both troops and vehicles. That's without the user-generated content, for which there are many screens of scenarios. It would take quite a while to play through them all. I don't know the exact numbers, but you or anyone else is welcome to quantify it with a number.

In my opinion, quality is much more important than quantity anyway, and this is a quality turn-based, single or multiplayer wargame and one that I would recommend.
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  #29  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:36 PM
djflippy djflippy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Harv View Post
Sadly not much at all like Combat Mission. I played the first three (BO, BB, AK) to death for the better part of a decade, and CM is much much deeper than Battle Academy can ever be. Not that that's a bad thing, as they're totally different designs and CM had a level of detail that was possibly overwhelming for some people.

Hmmmm. The initial 3 CM games on iOS...now how cool would that be?
I agree on all counts and you can sign me up to preorder any and all Combat Mission games, if it ever does happen.
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:49 AM
Werechihuahua Werechihuahua is offline
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Default Value decisions

I can't tell anyone what THEY are willing to pay for a quality wargame. I, for instance, have played maybe 30 or 40 great PC wargames by Gary Grigsby over the years from SSI and more recently Matrix/2by3. But I will be drawn and quartered before I spend $80 for the download only version of War in the East and $15 more for the expansion.

I'm not saying any man is being unreasonable if he chooses to spend or not spend his earnings as he likes. Just that this game is very good. And that at $20 it is HALF the price of the same game on other platforms.

Wargames are a niche market. I get that. But I'd rather play what I like with 10,000 wargamers than play Angry Birds and have 3 million school children and housewives for company. Ravenmark is pretty good, now that it doesn't crash all the time, and I liked it a lot. It is not in the same category as BA. That's like comparing Zenonia to FF 13 on the XBOX. Even with the second campaign, which is the same thing from the other side, it's a tiny fraction of the content of the base game of BA, without any UGC to DL.

Imagine the publisher's dilemma... they have a great game. It sells for $40 in a box. But the app store goes snake when they try to charge $10 for it after spending tens of thousands of dollars in iOS development. Why bother? They might take the path of Day of Wonder with Small World and cripple it to only 2 players so you still have to buy the $40 game if you really want to play.

Combat Mission Beyond Normandy, Afrika Korps, and Barbarossa to Berlin are great games. Still on my HD after all these years. You ain't playing them on iOS. If your point is, $20 is too much because you bought a great game on another platform years ago and still like it, I have no counter to that logic. Play and enjoy classic wargames, more power to you sir!

As to how much I spent on Tiny Tower... I was too shocked when I tallied it up to recall the exact numbers. Suffice to say that I was what the good people at Nimble Bit call a "whale", and I deleted it from my iPod touch and iPad at once. Been clean for weeks now, no relapses.

The theory of marginal utility doesn't have much to say about the objective value of entertainment products. But I believe a product is worth what the market will bear. The App store market is much more price sensitive because of it's wide mass market, everyone with a phone appeal. That's what made it huge. Now we need more deep, quality strategy titles to make it better. I don't think the intended audience for this is anyone with an iPad. If they wanted it to be considered as a purchase by everyone, it would be on the F2P bandwagon. I think we have enough Angry Doodle Rush Defense games coming out every day. I look forward avidly to GMT Games bringing some of it's great wargame titles to iOS, and Shenandoah Studios publishing 10 or so strategy titles on iOS. I don't look forward to hearing the screams when they ask less than half what they sell for on PC and MAC and people still vomit blood when they see a price over ten bucks.
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