Hunters 2 - (by Rodeo Games) - Universal App

[Lootbot]

Originally Posted by DaviddesJ

This is a pretty misleading way of counting, since once you are at a high level putting a small number of points into something you never or rarely use, doesn't make much sense.



You constantly commit the fallacy of central position, the belief that everyone is like you.

You might reflect on what actual fraction of players will have "already min-maxed their current team as much as possible." Maybe 1%?

So you mean "not many". Which implies that it takes long for characters to level up, and for people to explore the different possibilities. Increasing the level cap will only give you more both time and possibilities.

More importantly, you do realize there are only two skill trees available to each hunter? Even if every hunter is given the maximum 34 points, there would still be 10, reasonably distinct builds.

[pjft]

Originally Posted by Druin13

Well sir, I could not possibly agree with you more!

When I played this mission for the first time I didn't rest until at least one of those big-boss-men ate it.

However, it took my full team of 6 to kill the shotty Vengeance specced hero and most of them died in the process. This was not terribly efficient when it came to loot or xp farming so I beat the whole campaign then reset it and came back.

I have been working on it all day but I finally cleared the entire map with just 1 Hunter!

Setup:
(1) lvl 10 Devastator (Combat/Vengeance)
Legendary shotty - Arbitrators Shotgun - 1,760 dmg 90% acc 45% crit
Legendary light armor - Enhanced Reflex Suit - 1,240 tough 45% resist 5 ap
Spec - 1 crippling shot - 1 retribution - 1 revenge - 1 sadistic - 2 armour plating 3 armour resistance

Strat:
Okay, so the basic plan with this setup is to resist 75% of incoming damage. (unless it's a crit then it hits for full damage ... get ready to RNG your way to freedom!)
Then use Sadistic to heal more than they hit for each shot.
With the heavy wep / heavy armor mini-bosses, crippling shot gives you a "Time Walk" for you MTG players out there, or, another full round of shooting for free.
Retribution and revenge both help you do more damage for Sadistic to heal you back up.

Mini-boss 1: Sniper. I start with this guy because you HAVE to take a hit from him no matter what and if it crits you lose and have to start over.
Go around the bottom of the map and sneak up on him. Wait until he he facing away and move so that you can see him. DO NOT shoot him. If you do, he will turn, guard, and shoot you then get his turn and shoot you again and you die. Just pass turn, he will shoot you, if you live YAY! Shoot him 5 times, if you proc crippling once, shoot him 5 more. You should win this fight.

Mini-boss 2: Shotty. This guy is second, because he is the second most likely to kill you. Go back around through the bottom of the map (you need to come into his room from the beginning section so you can duck the shots on his turn). Pop into view, shoot him 3 times, duck out. He won't move unlike many other mini-bosses. He will have a chance to shoot you back every time. It will do almost zero damage unless it's a crit and then it does 1.4k. You can only take one of these crits at a time without dieing so if he counter crits you twice in too short a period you die. Rinse-repeat.

Mini-boss 3 and 4: Assault Rifle. These two are exactly the same (top left and bottom right) and they are both pretty easy but can still kill you with bad luck. Sneak up behind them with 4ap left (use the pillars to los them) and shoot them 3 times. Hopefully you get 2-3 crippling shots. Use your last AP to move around the pillar. This makes them waste one of their precious movement points on running into your LOS. If you get 2-3 crippling shots you get a free round with 4 hits and a move. If not, you tank one round of burst from them. This will kill you outright if it's a crit. They have a much lower chance to crit than the sniper so you have a good chance at winning both fights.

Mini-boss 5: Rocket Launcher. This guy can't kill you if you play right. You have most of the map to kite him around corners and when crippling shot lands even once you get a free turn of 3-4 shots you land another crippling.
Start him off from the bottom duck in, get hit by his guard rocket (can't kill you even when crit at 100% hp) then kite him forever. He will never guard again.

Mini-boss 6: Hammer. This guy should never hit you. With 5 ap you can shoot twice then move 3 times and he will move 3 times and wait. Rinse repeat forever until he is dead. Every time crippling procs you can shoot one more time and be safe.

This whole strat probably took me 10+ hours to come up with and execute ... but man is it satisfying!

Hope you enjoyed the write up, I was inspired when I saw a fellow "do it the hard way" type on the forums!

Note: I have gotten some good loot farming these guys and it isn't a bad way to power level to 10 either.

Note2: I could see doing this run with a Survival specced guy + something. I will try to repeat this feat with other setups once I get the legendary items to do so.

Wow - very good write-up. As soon as I level up my guys I might take these on as well

[Bullwinkle]

Originally Posted by C.Hannum

I think you're rationalizing.

<sigh>...

Hard as it may be for you to believe, I'm not rationalizing. I'm enjoying myself. Sit down with your therapist and see if you can spot the difference.

Yes, I do prefer this way. Why? Because I like making hard choices. My guys have flaws. Weaknesses. One small tactical slip and could they go from kicking a** to needing a replacement in a single turn. That's exciting. So yes, it's their weaknesses as much as their strengths that give them personality. And if I want to explore different options, then hey, I can make a whole new team and have fun starting all over again.

As David pointed out, different people like different things. It's a grand old world.

Originally Posted by Picoman

Picked up this app just to figure out what the hell you guys are arguing about, lol.

Then my work here is done.

[Ashraam]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle

<sigh>...

Hard as it may be for you to believe, I'm not rationalizing. I'm enjoying myself. Sit down with your therapist and see if you can spot the difference.

Yes, I do prefer this way. Why? Because I like making hard choices. My guys have flaws. Weaknesses. One small tactical slip and could they go from kicking a** to needing a replacement in a single turn. That's exciting. So yes, it's their weaknesses as much as their strengths that give them personality. And if I want to explore different options, then hey, I can make a whole new team and have fun starting all over again.

As David pointed out, different people like different things. It's a grand old world.

+1 ^^

And according to that, do you think it's interesting to choose Cold Blood for a Hammer wielding hunter (Charger build) ?

I've noticed that the Fleet Footed skill is worth a point (about 30% proc) but what's about Cold Blood skill ?

[Bullwinkle]

Originally Posted by phrenik

Had a question regarding item function. ( I really wish there was more info. Cus I find it interesting and WANT to learn more about resistance, crits etc) anyway, I was wondering for those seasoned players, does the amount of toughness(is it safe to assume/interchange this with the general term defense for ease?) = a greater benefit/ is more important than resistance?

For a very rough idea, calculate the following for each armour:

(armour toughness)/[1-0.008*(armour resistance)]

where resistance is in percent (e.g. 5% = 5, not 0.05). This gives you a likely 'damage handling equivalent'; that is, how much unmodified damage the armour can handle without failing. For your examples, I get (and someone check my equation!):

Light: 840/5 vs 680/30 --> 875 vs 895 (2nd is better)
Or
Heavy: 5200/5 vs 3700/45 --> 5417 vs 5781 (2nd is better)
Or
Medium : 2600/10 vs 2280/15 --> 2826 vs 2591 (I rearranged your numbers because in the original, the 2nd was obviously better)


However, don't rely on this too much, since this analysis is based on handling large numbers of hits, and against tougher enemies, resistance becomes more important, since some hits would be one-shot kills, especially in the lighter armours.

In general, the heavier the hit, the better it is to have higher resistance. So choose your armour not only on the stats but what enemies you're likely to expose your hunter to.

[Bullwinkle]

Originally Posted by Ashraam

And according to that, do you think it's interesting to choose Cold Blood for a Hammer wielding hunter (Charger build) ?

I've noticed that the Fleet Footed skill is worth a point (about 30% proc) but what's about Cold Blood skill ?

Hmm...I haven't tried a Combat Hammer. I thought Scouting/Survival would be a better choice, so that's what I've worked with.

With Scouting, you get Fleet Foot (+1 AP chance/move), Improved Metabolism (+1 AP), Recon (+2 AP first few turns) and Sprint (for positioning and getting out of tight situations). Take Hunker Down from the Survival tree, add a lvl 2 Stimpak, put some Light armour on him and he's a beast. You could have at least 16 AP your first turn (likely more), and still leave him harmlessly exposed to a round of shots for a two-turn total of at least 24 AP. Or save those skills for later and you get at least 18 damage-free AP over two turns.

I tend to use my Hammer to dart in and out, rather than standing around soaking up damage. So he's always moving, and Fleet Foot's a better choice for that. But I'm playing hardcore, so I can't afford to leave my guys exposed. The downside is that apart from one or two short bursts, your Hammer ends up mostly standing around doing nothing. And he's totally ineffective on large, open maps.

With Combat, Second Chance and Cold Blood are both useful. Crippling Shot would rarely be used, though, and Massacre only sometimes, I suspect. I think this would work for a non-hardcore build. Put heavier armour on him and he'd be a lot of fun when he gets up close.

[C.Hannum]

Originally Posted by DaviddesJ

You might reflect on what actual fraction of players will have "already min-maxed their current team as much as possible." Maybe 1%?

No fallacy as the only people who could possibly ever care about the level cap are the same ones who will have done so and are posting here. To even stretch your mind to assume I'm talking about the entire player base takes a talent I can only guess at how it functions.

You routinely commit the fallacy of assuming I don't know how studies, statistics, etc. function, or context for that matter, yet I'm all but certain I'm at least as versed in the field if not mopping the floor with your gadfly self.

You want relative positions, OK... Raise or don't raise the level cap since 98% of the player base will never advance their teams past levels 6 or 7 anyhow so the upper game couldn't possibly matter to anyone who counts according DaviddesJ. Don't worry about adding any more weapons and content because, who cares, most of your players will never experience it anyhow. And Blizzard? That company who rakes in billions putting the lions' share of their efforts catering mostly to less than a fraction of a percentage point of their players, they're idiots

[C.Hannum]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle

Hard as it may be for you to believe, I'm not rationalizing. I'm enjoying myself. Sit down with your therapist and see if you can spot the difference.

I'm not saying you're not enjoying yourself, but, yes, I do assume your claims are rationalization at some level.

You're taking one of those "best of all possible worlds" positions that are usually, by their nature, logically weak. They released the game with a maximum of 9 points for builds, so we all have to put on our thinking caps and come up with the best solutions giving 9 points, and for gamers, yes, it's fun.

However, it's kind of silly to assert that if they'd released the game with 14 points or 17 points or whatever that you wouldn't have come to the exact same conclusion: You enjoy the game so, ergo, the game design must be the "best" possible game design as even with those limited points you would still be making hard decisions and creating hunters with weaknesses.

Your claims don't pass the proverbial smell test. You can't even create a hunter with a little bit of everything with less than a level 22 cap, and that's just a little bit. So the reasons you give for why 9 is better than 10 or 12 or whatever are baseless assertions at their core.

[Hardbattle]

Only just started playing this, but can somebody let me know if this has been retina updated for the new iPad?

[DaviddesJ]

Originally Posted by C.Hannum

No fallacy as the only people who could possibly ever care about the level cap are the same ones who will have done so and are posting here.

No, that's not true at all. The question of how they add new content to the game makes a big difference to everyone, not just the few people like you. There's not much room for different interpretations of your claim, "In another few weeks when everyone has already min-maxed their current team as much as possible." You're saying all of the players are in the same position as you and want the same things. But it's just not true at all.

There's not much point in raising the level caps if you don't also add more difficult content for those higher level characters. You already trumpet how easy it is for you to beat everything in the game now, surely you aren't going to be satisfied with stronger characters beating the same enemies even more easily. So the path of raising the level cap in order to add more difficult content for higher level characters is one way of continuing to grow and expand the game, but it's one that only serves a small fraction of the player community.

Compare that to other ways of expanding the game, such as adding more skills that everyone can use, at whatever level they are, and you see why a lot of people in that 99% might not prefer what you consider to be the only approach.