Heroes Call (by Defiant Development) [Universal]

[aceyprime]

Really enjoy the gameplay itself - very well executed overall though the overall speed could use a little boost. However...

Defiant: please, please consider a one-time IAP to remove wait times. I would GLADLY pay $5 to be able to enjoy the game without waiting. Triple Town had a similar IAP to remove the wait needed to get more turns and I think that turned out well for them.

[chaos_envoys]

I would pay $9.99 to remove all the waiting!!
really a good game without the waiting!

[squarezero]

Originally Posted by Alex DeLargest

No, stating one's principles is not a waste of time. Also, your comment served simply to illustrate Gabrien's point.

Premium games are designed to encourage players to want to spend money to experience the game. Freemium games are designed to encourage real money expenditures in order for the player to spend less time in the game. This perversion is destroying traditional game mechanics and making fools of those who literally buy into freemium.

Why would you invest time playing something designed not for escapism or mastery, but for cynical exploitation? Why would you pay to have less time invested into something that is ostensibly a recreational pursuit to begin with?

That these questions even need to be asked illustrate Gabrien's comments regarding integrity, self-respect, intelligence, and principles being in short supply.

I spent most of my youth playing games designed for cynical exploitation: they were called "arcade games.". Yes, every single one of your faves, every single game that you remember fondly, was designed to extract as many quarters out of you as possible. (Don't believe me? Listen to Miyamoto speak about his career at Nintendo before consoles -- even the freaking saint of gaming wanted to rip you off .)

And, of course, the console busines is rife with cynical manipulation, from preorder bonuses to yearly sequels to console exclusivity to pre-release DLC to silly-content-to-justify-$60-for-a-6-hour-campaign, monthly subscription fees, real-money auction houses, etc. Video games didn't become a huge industry by playing nice: they did so by extracting as much cash as possible from 15 year olds. Call it reprehensible. call it capitalism: it's the nature of this all consuming hobby that we know and love.

The real question is whether you are getting enough value for your money. Games like FarmVille and Mafia Wars are compulsion machines that provide no joy whatsoever. A game like War of Warcraft (which exploits some of the same psychology as Zynga) provide you with enough content and invention to justify its insidious business model). As far as I'm concerned, Heroes Call has provided me with great value for the amount of money I've spent on it ($0). Am I annoyed by the wait-time system? Absolutely. Do I wish that the developer allowed me to circumvent it with a one-time payment? Of course. But to make this a moral issue or "a matter of principle" is very silly, not to mention tiresome and, frankly, annoying. And I have to say, as much as I appreciate Gabrien's contributions to this site (and I do), the way that he and other anti-IAP ideologues keep derailing these forum threads is getting really, really old.

Now, I'm not saying that a game's business model does not merit discussion. But a productive conversation should focus, IMHO, on value, not knee-jerk reactions or ideological posturing.

[Gabrien]

Originally Posted by squarezero

And I have to say, as much as I appreciate Gabrien's contributions to this site (and I do), the way that he and other anti-IAP ideologues keep derailing these forum threads is getting really, really old.

Now, I'm not saying that a game's business model does not merit discussion. But a productive conversation should focus, IMHO, on value, not knee-jerk reactions or ideological posturing.

This might surprise you, but I can actually see your point. I will take issue with "posturing," but have readily admitted to being an idealist in the past. (I don't see it as a shortcoming.) Even as far as posturing goes, I only take issue with it being used as a blanket statement, as I am sure the shoe fits on some occasions.

I do want to say though, that there is a very specific purpose to my anti-IAP statements, aside from whatever moral forces cause me to speak out: it is the only way I know to facilitate change. I want developers to be aware that a decision to include IAP in their titles will lose them a percentage of sales. That it is not a risk free decision to be made lightly with no consequence. The more people speak out (and follow through) the more significant the impact will be. That isn't complicated at all. I've noticed a significant rise in the last few months in the numbers of people speaking out against the worst kinds of IAP, and, I don't believe coincidentally, a significant swing away from these kinds of IAP from many developers.

[Card]

Originally Posted by squarezero

I have to say, so far the only two things I would change are:

1) speed up the character movement a bit.

2) add a one-time-purchase "no wait-time" IAP -- make it around $4.00 and you'll have a lot of takers.

Agree, a "no wait-time" IAP is much needed.

[sladeums]

This looks really good !
From the sound of things though, I won't bother to download it.

Devs, please consider a one-time purchase to do away with the timer and I'll be there.

Passing on this for now...but will keep it on my watchlist.

[squarezero]

Originally Posted by Gabrien

This might surprise you, but I can actually see your point. I will take issue with "posturing," but have readily admitted to being an idealist in the past. (I don't see it as a shortcoming.) Even as far as posturing goes, I only take issue with it being used as a blanket statement, as I am sure the shoe fits on some occasions.

I do want to say though, that there is a very specific purpose to my anti-IAP statements, aside from whatever moral forces cause me to speak out: it is the only way I know to facilitate change. I want developers to be aware that a decision to include IAP in their titles will lose them a percentage of sales. That it is not a risk free decision to be made lightly with no consequence. The more people speak out (and follow through) the more significant the impact will be. That isn't complicated at all. I've noticed a significant rise in the last few months in the numbers of people speaking out against the worst kinds of IAP, and, I don't believe coincidentally, a significant swing away from these kinds of IAP from many developers.

I think that the more we can speak out about specific issues -- rather than blanket indictments -- the more impact we will have with developers and publishers.

And I agree: "posturing" was pretty harsh. My apologies.

[awp69]

To add to the IAP discussion, I'm one of the people on this board who frequently posts anti-IAP sentiment. I HATE IAPs. I'd much rather pay for a game upfront.

So, maybe I'm a bit of a hypocryte for playing this game, but it is a really good game. While the wait-time thing is extremely annoying, I'd rather deal with that than the many games with consumable IAPs (the worst of the offenders IMO).

In actuality, unless they come up with a one-time non-wait IAP, I'm going to be one of the this dev's worst customers because I refuse to continually spend IAPs just to reduce wait-times. I'm just going to play and put it aside. So in some ways I'm sticking to my "principle" and do wish this was a premium on-time investment.

Still, it's a great game and one that I've been wanting for -- a Diablo-esque game on my iPhone. So I'm going to suffer through the wait times (have plenty of other games to play) unless they make a decision to add some kind of unlock IAP to get rid of them.

[jeffyg3]

It's a good game. I actually don't mind waiting for the next quest. I just play this game in between my other games so this game doesn't get as stale as it might have been if i kept on playing it. I'll never support this kind of IAP model though.

Kind of sad a lot of devs can't make enough on games they have to resort to this kind of model to try to make money.

[sakinnuso]

Originally Posted by squarezero

I spent most of my youth playing games designed for cynical exploitation: they were called "arcade games.". Yes, every single one of your faves, every single game that you remember fondly, was designed to extract as many quarters out of you as possible. (Don't believe me? Listen to Miyamoto speak about his career at Nintendo before consoles -- even the freaking saint of gaming wanted to rip you off .)

And, of course, the console busines is rife with cynical manipulation, from preorder bonuses to yearly sequels to console exclusivity to pre-release DLC to silly-content-to-justify-$60-for-a-6-hour-campaign, monthly subscription fees, real-money auction houses, etc. Video games didn't become a huge industry by playing nice: they did so by extracting as much cash as possible from 15 year olds. Call it reprehensible. call it capitalism: it's the nature of this all consuming hobby that we know and love.

The real question is whether you are getting enough value for your money. Games like FarmVille and Mafia Wars are compulsion machines that provide no joy whatsoever. A game like War of Warcraft (which exploits some of the same psychology as Zynga) provide you with enough content and invention to justify its insidious business model). As far as I'm concerned, Heroes Call has provided me with great value for the amount of money I've spent on it ($0). Am I annoyed by the wait-time system? Absolutely. Do I wish that the developer allowed me to circumvent it with a one-time payment? Of course. But to make this a moral issue or "a matter of principle" is very silly, not to mention tiresome and, frankly, annoying. And I have to say, as much as I appreciate Gabrien's contributions to this site (and I do), the way that he and other anti-IAP ideologues keep derailing these forum threads is getting really, really old.

Now, I'm not saying that a game's business model does not merit discussion. But a productive conversation should focus, IMHO, on value, not knee-jerk reactions or ideological posturing.

This is everything that needs to be said. Well done, sir.

Back to biz model: a premium priced 10.00 IAP-free alternate version would be fantastic. Giving people the option should be- financially - the best of both worlds for the dev, right?

Also, A speed boost in animation wouldn't hurt either.