Café International - The Boardgame [Universal]

[Rombos]

Originally Posted by crunc

Your link to the "Applications Systems Website" is a link to iTunes and the iBook. I would like to check out the PDF version while I'm on my computer.

I've read this thread, but I still have very little idea of how this game plays, so I'd like to read the rules to see if it sounds like something I'd enjoy.

Ooops, copy/paste typo, I fixed the link to the website above. There is also a cool "critical first look" video that I like and probably gives you a better overview than our own product video...


Youtube link | Pop Up

[LordGek]

I just noticed something cool...but potentially counter-intuitive!

These guys have addressed a Pet Peeve of mine in Board Games that include leaderboards! Beyond simply having a separate leaderboard for each game mode (essential and appreciated), they've found a neat way to incorporate the AI difficulty and number of opponents into the score!

Your score from actions in the game (adding a guest to a table or filling a table entirely) is based on the action's base value multiplied by the number of players in the game. Since the number of guests and table remain constant, this multiplier at least somewhat ensures your end scores should remain fairly even no matter how many players.

Even cooler, at the end of the game your end score is modified depending on the quality of your opponents (+0% for Easy, +5% Normal, +10% Expert). S0 if you take on 3 Expert opponents your end score is multiplied by 1.3.

Here is my question for the devs though. When is this 130% modifier factored into my score? Am I getting spotted an additional 30% in games vs. Expert AI and thus kind of negating the true challenge of playing against Expert AI players or is this modifier only for the leaderboard and not used to determine the game's winner?

[Rombos]

Originally Posted by LordGek

Here is my question for the devs though. When is this 130% modifier factored into my score? Am I getting spotted an additional 30% in games vs. Expert AI and thus kind of negating the true challenge of playing against Expert AI players or is this modifier only for the leaderboard and not used to determine the game's winner?

While the animation (the flying bonus stars) come in at the end only in the winner parade, at that point the final score including your bonus was already used for determining your position -- so yes: you are accounted for the complete 130% (assuming you play alone against three expert AI) for "everything"
I am completely open to discuss how much sense this makes, and if we can improve the overall experience in any way, I am glad to address that again. The main goal here is to avoid any frustration on the player side and somehow introduce a maximum fairness on all modes and for all players.

[LordGek]

Originally Posted by Rombos

While the animation (the flying bonus stars) come in at the end only in the winner parade, at that point the final score including your bonus was already used for determining your position -- so yes: you are accounted for the complete 130% (assuming you play alone against three expert AI) for "everything"
I am completely open to discuss how much sense this makes, and if we can improve the overall experience in any way, I am glad to address that again. The main goal here is to avoid any frustration on the player side and somehow introduce a maximum fairness on all modes and for all players.

I really like the idea of being REWARDED for taking on the greater challenge so, no biggy.

[Agas]

Originally Posted by Rombos

Well, actually there is something like that. We have a strategy guide, and it also includes all the rules (and also explains the final extra bonus ;-)

If you have at least an iPad 2, then there is an iBook for you. If you have an iPad 1 or iPhone/iPod, you can visit the Application Systems Website and download a PDF to read on your PC or print.

So, there's actually no strategy guide INSIDE the app?
Well, I think it's better if you put the guide inside the app just like any other board game because sometimes people forget how to play it and a quick read is far better than long video. Perhaps in the next update?
Still, I'm gonna visit your website and download the PDF version.

Originally Posted by Rombos

While the animation (the flying bonus stars) come in at the end only in the winner parade, at that point the final score including your bonus was already used for determining your position -- so yes: you are accounted for the complete 130% (assuming you play alone against three expert AI) for "everything"

While I like to be rewarded for playing against expert AIs, I think the 30% addition is reducing the challenge. It's like the hard level is no longer hard because we get 1.3 multiplier that is not related to the game at all. I personally think that the multiplier is not necessary (even for leaderboards). I wonder how it will be implemented in the future there are 2 human players and 2 AIs? I like to play Ticket to Ride with hard opponents, sometimes I lose, sometimes I win, but there's no score boost (I feel cheated with the 30% score bonus) - that's what makes me play it over and over again.

[Rombos]

Originally Posted by Agas

So, there's actually no strategy guide INSIDE the app?
Well, I think it's better if you put the guide inside the app just like any other board game because sometimes people forget how to play it and a quick read is far better than long video. Perhaps in the next update?
Still, I'm gonna visit your website and download the PDF version.

The strategy guide is just a supplemental documentation for players that want more in-depth information. If you include it, it looks like you need to take a long class first before you can start, and that is not the case. We will include links to these available additional guides in the next update, though.
All the rules are explained in the game. I am not sure what video you are referring to? The one I posted was just a third party review, because you (or someone else here) asked for some broader info. There is no video in the game.

While I like to be rewarded for playing against expert AIs, I think the 30% addition is reducing the challenge. It's like the hard level is no longer hard because we get 1.3 multiplier that is not related to the game at all. I personally think that the multiplier is not necessary (even for leaderboards). I wonder how it will be implemented in the future there are 2 human players and 2 AIs? I like to play Ticket to Ride with hard opponents, sometimes I lose, sometimes I win, but there's no score boost (I feel cheated with the 30% score bonus) - that's what makes me play it over and over again.

The scoring here is a bit different, because there are no absolute points that you score independently from everyone else. Even if you win, 3 expert AI would still take a lot points from yours, and the leaderboard would ultimately only have those on top that win against rookie opponents, because their overall score would be much higher. There is some reasoning behind it, and you won't really win significantly more often just because of the bonus. Consider it rather as a linear handicap (not depending on random factors) for the inherently more powerful AI opponents.

[Agas]

Originally Posted by Rombos

All the rules are explained in the game. I am not sure what video you are referring to? The one I posted was just a third party review, because you (or someone else here) asked for some broader info. There is no video in the game.

What I mean by the video is the tutorial that I have to click and wait for the action before I can continue. It's not actually a video, but it feels like one (cannot fast forward).
Well, actually I think it is better to include at least a basic rulebook as a guide, in case I haven't played it for a long time and wants to check scoring rule or something. I don't need a comprehensive guide, just basic gameplay and basic scoring - instead of repeating the tutorial.

Originally Posted by Rombos

The scoring here is a bit different, because there are no absolute points that you score independently from everyone else. Even if you win, 3 expert AI would still take a lot points from yours, and the leaderboard would ultimately only have those on top that win against rookie opponents, because their overall score would be much higher. There is some reasoning behind it, and you won't really win significantly more often just because of the bonus. Consider it rather as a linear handicap (not depending on random factors) for the inherently more powerful AI opponents.

So the AI can also take my points if I win?
I know that I won't be easily win by the bonus (since I haven't won any yet), but sometimes I go from 3rd/4th place to 2nd place. Actually this kind of scoring that you need to put in the basic guide - because at first I'm shocked that I am at 4th position but suddenly get 3 stars and catapult me to 2nd positions without reason.
Maybe a toggle to on/off the bonus?
Either way, I like the game a lot!!! Can't wait for the multiplayer.

[Rombos]

Originally Posted by Agas

So the AI can also take my points if I win?

No, but the better your opponents are, the harder it is for you to get a winning share of total points. So theoretically, without any randomness, there are only so many total points you can score, and they are distributed according to players skills (high level seen, of course ;-)

I know that I won't be easily win by the bonus (since I haven't won any yet), but sometimes I go from 3rd/4th place to 2nd place. Actually this kind of scoring that you need to put in the basic guide - because at first I'm shocked that I am at 4th position but suddenly get 3 stars and catapult me to 2nd positions without reason.
Maybe a toggle to on/off the bonus?

Yeah, we might need to revisit this topic. But then, it's not our top priority. I just implemented e.g. UNDO, which seems much more of a desire for a lot of fans. And there are other big and small things on the list, since we definitely listen to you!

Either way, I like the game a lot!!! Can't wait for the multiplayer.

In the end that should be the ultimate goal -- playing should be fun! I am glad that is the case for you (and seemingly for most of our audience ;-)

[Bianchi]

Hi!

Quick question to Rombos: Do you have plans for an Undo? I play on an iPhone and because everything is tiny I occasionally drop a card in a wrong place.

[kikemenendez]

Thanks 4 the code guys. I Love your work, congrats!!