Quality vs. Quantity

[Connector]

Originally Posted by Balloon Loons

Yup sure this is true. But this says nothing to the games depth or length. People tend to download 3d games more for iPads simply because of the look. But no gamer will choose the iPad over their Xbox. Think about how uncomfortable an iPad is to hold for more than 30 minutes at most. Again I stick with the point that these platforms remain time killers and not the go to item for a real gamer. The only way that would ever happen is when they start to ship with Bluetooth controllers and dramatically increase storage and change the way games are downloaded. (no 50 mb limit). Until then these devices remain time killers. Not to say of course a programmer isn't welcomed to put as much content as they want in the app. You did and good for you. My point is you may have had the same results from doing less but keeping the look of them game. I remain certain that your graphics are what sold the game. I too feel like we put some decent amount of content in our game and made it fun but at the end of the day the graphics are not on the level of your graphics and it flopped. I can almost bet my life that if my game was rendered in 3d it would have been a huge success.

I disagree, I would much rather have a new ipad over an xbox 360. I don't really want to start a console vs new ipad fan club war, but I for one wouldn't even think twice about this decision for many different reasons.

True, maybe 30 min is comfortable holding an ipad in mid air, but most people have stands for the ipads, or you can rest it on my lap/chest, or put it on your lap.

Most of the rest of what you say I can agree with, but the other another major disagreement is that if you are saying that most people bought Rubicon's game mostly for the graphics, I have to disagree again. I think it's the gameplay they like, with added consideration for depth and length.

But I do agree with you about an bluetooth joystick, that would be a real game changer.

[Balloon Loons]

Originally Posted by Connector

I disagree, I would much rather have a new ipad over an xbox 360. I don't really want to start a console vs new ipad fan club war, but I for one wouldn't even think twice about this decision for many different reasons.

True, maybe 30 min is comfortable holding an ipad in mid air, but most people have stands for the ipads, or you can rest it on my lap/chest, or put it on your lap.

Most of the rest of what you say I can agree with, but the other another major disagreement is that if you are saying that most people bought Rubicon's game mostly for the graphics, I have to disagree again. I think it's the gameplay they like, with added consideration for depth and length.

But I do agree with you about an bluetooth joystick, that would be a real game changer.

I think you misunderstood my Xbox example a little. I just used Xbox as an example of a console but I was referring to all consoles. Gamers would never choose to play a game on an iPad over a console game. Sure you may choose an iPad over an Xbox but that because of other functions as well like watching videos for example.

When I say 30 minutes I'm including time spent switching how you hold the iPad. Overall it becomes uncomfortable. Your hand hurt or your neck cramps and you just can't sit there anymore playing it. Personally I would rather play a game on my iPhone just because it's more comfortable. But even then it's only to kill some time. If I want to get lost in a game I pick up my console.

Also I didnt say the only reason rubicons game sold was graphics. What I said was graphics initially drove the sale. Think of spiderman. It looked pretty so millions downloaded it even though the game was shit. So my point is only that 3d graphics sell no matter what the game is. So in reality the game itself could have no depth because the sale was already made. See apps are impulse buys because of the low price point. If a user sees a pretty presentation they are curious and spend $2. Take that same game and make it 49$ for a console and it has a tougher time selling. Then it becomes more about how good the game actually is. This is in reference to any iOS game not specifically rubicons which happens to be a great game itself.

The question was quality over quantity and my point was that for ios games you don't need to concen yourself too much with depth. Again I refer back to tiny wings as the perfect example of this. Even angry birds. Simplicity sold the game not amount of content or depth. Just my two cents and also an idea that is reflected by many gamers (I have alot of teenage friends lol).

[Connector]

Originally Posted by Balloon Loons

I think you misunderstood my Xbox example a little. I just used Xbox as an example of a console but I was referring to all consoles. Gamers would never choose to play a game on an iPad over a console game. Sure you may choose an iPad over an Xbox but that because of other functions as well like watching videos for example.

When I say 30 minutes I'm including time spent switching how you hold the iPad. Overall it becomes uncomfortable. Your hand hurt or your neck cramps and you just can't sit there anymore playing it. Personally I would rather play a game on my iPhone just because it's more comfortable. But even then it's only to kill some time. If I want to get lost in a game I pick up my console.

Also I didnt say the only reason rubicons game sold was graphics. What I said was graphics initially drove the sale. Think of spiderman. It looked pretty so millions downloaded it even though the game was shit. So my point is only that 3d graphics sell no matter what the game is. So in reality the game itself could have no depth because the sale was already made. See apps are impulse buys because of the low price point. If a user sees a pretty presentation they are curious and spend $2. Take that same game and make it 49$ for a console and it has a tougher time selling. Then it becomes more about how good the game actually is. This is in reference to any iOS game not specifically rubicons which happens to be a great game itself.

The question was quality over quantity and my point was that for ios games you don't need to concen yourself too much with depth. Again I refer back to tiny wings as the perfect example of this. Even angry birds. Simplicity sold the game not amount of content or depth. Just my two cents and also an idea that is reflected by many gamers (I have alot of teenage friends lol).

I will admit that comparable console vs ipad games, the console versions are much better, especially FPS and 3d games. But there are a lot of games that play better on the ipad including puzzle games and niche games. Even for me, I like playing shmups on my ipad better with touch control than with an analog joystick.

Anyway, I think it is probably more fair if one compares the ipad with the vita since it is a portable system, and consideration has to be made on the price of games because you can get a lot of good ipad games for $50.

If you have an ipad, I would recommend a tripod like the ihome one, I use it, and I love it. But you are right, the new ipad is a little on the heavy side.

I think maybe you should have used a game like Dead Trigger more as an example over Rubicon's game, but you have a valid point, graphics do sell.

You say that games like tiny birds and angry birds sell well, so developers might want to go for simple games, but I hope not. I for one am kind of bored of all these endless runners and simple simple puzzle games. I like puzzle games like follow the rabbit or cut the rope over simple mindless games. Or it would be nice to have more console like games. I am currently having a lot of fun with Virtua Tennis on my new ipad. It's a great game.

Anyway, I'm not going to post anymore about consoles vs ipad, because it's kind of pointless. But I do hope that developers go the route of quality vs quantity, depth over mindless, and that ios never goes the route of junky mindless iap freemiums, cause that kind of seems the trend at this moment.

[Rubicon]

Originally Posted by Balloon Loons

But no gamer will choose the iPad over their Xbox

Raises hand.

Consoles are dead to me, the games are too expensive, and largely too derivative.

[Balloon Loons]

Originally Posted by Connector

I will admit that comparable console vs ipad games, the console versions are much better, especially FPS and 3d games. But there are a lot of games that play better on the ipad including puzzle games and niche games. Even for me, I like playing shmups on my ipad better with touch control than with an analog joystick.

Anyway, I think it is probably more fair if one compares the ipad with the vita since it is a portable system, and consideration has to be made on the price of games because you can get a lot of good ipad games for $50.

If you have an ipad, I would recommend a tripod like the ihome one, I use it, and I love it. But you are right, the new ipad is a little on the heavy side.

I think maybe you should have used a game like Dead Trigger more as an example over Rubicon's game, but you have a valid point, graphics do sell.

You say that games like tiny birds and angry birds sell well, so developers might want to go for simple games, but I hope not. I for one am kind of bored of all these endless runners and simple simple puzzle games. I like puzzle games like follow the rabbit or cut the rope over simple mindless games. Or it would be nice to have more console like games. I am currently having a lot of fun with Virtua Tennis on my new ipad. It's a great game.

Anyway, I'm not going to post anymore about consoles vs ipad, because it's kind of pointless. But I do hope that developers go the route of quality vs quantity, depth over mindless, and that ios never goes the route of junky mindless iap freemiums, cause that kind of seems the trend at this moment.

Yup but remember iOS is limited. You almost have to stick with a one touch user interface or you start to alienate everyone. Imagine a game with 10 buttons on ios or any portable touch screen device? No way! Limited control means limited gameplay. Also limited file size means limited depth and length. 50mb is nothing these days! Unfortunately one of those can never change so the same types of games will continue being made. Puzzle games work great on touch screen but how many puzzle games can you really play until you get sick of them all. And puzzle games are a dime a dozen now. Plus it comes down to audience. Let's face it the majority of ios gamers are casual. When you develop I assume you want to target the largest audience possible. If an app isn't simple you alienate the majority of users setting up to fail. Well unless of course you have a known name already or have thousands to spend on marketing. But this relates the average indie developer. Most of us do this out of love on the side of a day job. Most can't afford to spend on marketing firms. Another thing that could change to help improve game quality is the way the app store is set up. The current method only supports the big names and spenders leaving little guys in the dust. Do you think tiny wings would be a hit if it was released today? Somehow I doubt it.

[Balloon Loons]

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Raises hand.

Consoles are dead to me, the games are too expensive, and largely too derivative.

As developers we are biased here. We almost have to play iOS games to see the competition. And we don't really have the time to get lost in a game these days. I once played my Xbox and play station like 5 hours a day. I would love to have that kind of free time these days lol. So you and I have a unique bond to our iOS devices that gamers do not. Unless you're referring to casual gamers. Casual gamers choose ios over consoles because of simplicity and games like words with friends . But that goes back to my point that that is the target audience for ios games.

[Rubicon]

No bias here. I just don't like games consoles.

Almost all games available on them are better playing with either a mouse, a touch screen or an actual proper joystick. I also want to play whilst the wife is watching big brother or whatever.

[Ndemic Creations]

I agree with Rubicon, I absolutely believe that iOS gamers want more complex and involving games as well as the simple ones

Plague Inc. is proof of this - it is a challenging game which people invest significant (hours) of time into. I expected it to be a niche game but instead it became mainstream because people wanted something different to the normal, simple game which involves throwing objects into other objects.

[Rubicon]

Also worth noting, from the front page...

http://toucharcade.com/2012/08/09/th...s-of-all-time/

[Balloon Loons]

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Also worth noting, from the front page...

http://toucharcade.com/2012/08/09/th...s-of-all-time/

Oh wow lol. What a coincidence that this shows up just as we are talkin about it. But yea the article clearly states my point about casual gamers.

But you had me laughing with the
Comment on your wife! Boy can I relate to that ! Haha