Deleting and relaunching an app

[mr.Ugly]

Originally Posted by chris1a

But that's nothing new tho Apple/companies trying to protect their backs with shady "license agreements". Anyway every time you take a dump on your customers by removing an app a kitten dies, and you know it. Kitten killer.

well you guys exaggerate it a lot.. there is nothing shady about an license agreement because you decide to not read it..

this is the OP asking about his issue.. and all the responses where bonkers and completly out of context.. as if he does something bad.. like a sacrilege..

greedy developers.. really wants to earn more than a few dollars a month.. shame on you.. look at angry birds i bought all of their games and you want to pull your app and try over.. bad greedy developer.. and you did not even asked the op how his sales where.. but greedy, of course


@connector: you deleted your app point the finger to someone else? so you made an error and now someone else is the culprit? because it its more than well known that apps are being removed from the store over and over due to different reasons..? way to go.. like there is no way to make a backup on another hdd or dvd or whatever.. of course not..

its interesting to see that there are still some people in the digital age who think they own any software.. rather than they have the right to use them, which can be invoked in different ways.

in the end this is about reasonable expectations.. but apparently there does not exist a thing like common sense and the ability to differentiate on a case by case base..

as for rights for gamers? lol are you serious.. this is not even about a game..

this is getting absurd.. because you are not right (legally).. and apple gives refunds simply because as a good gesture.. but they are not forced todo so.. they could say no and that would be end of the story.

but thats a different story called customer care.. which a billion dollar company can pay for.. but a small indie developer most likely not..

so i don't understand what you are getting worked up about.. i hope you want to get paid in your dayjob too for what you do and don't be forced to work for free because a customer thinks he is entitled to it..

this is digital distributions and the only way to hold securly to the data is to back it up.. if you are allowed to (which you are)

so what happens if valve goes bankrupt? what happens if the appstore goes down etc. etc. "what happens if" is a childish game and pointless because anyone can only estimate and guess.

again i'm on both sides on the fence.. i'm a customer and a developer.. so i know both sides and everything is alot more complex than it seems.

greedy developers and cheap customers.. the old swan song..

app store customers are anything but cheap.. check out the trop grossing charts and see where all the people spend tons of cash in for in app currency etc. but then the users who moan about prices and make a fuss about refunding a dollar are not really representing the market out there anywhere.. its just a vocal minority who would probably never spend 100$ a month on virtual goods for their farm or castle

[Connector]

Originally Posted by mr.Ugly

well you guys exaggerate it a lot.. there is nothing shady about an license agreement because you decide to not read it..

this is the OP asking about his issue.. and all the responses where bonkers and completly out of context.. as if he does something bad.. like a sacrilege..

greedy developers.. really wants to earn more than a few dollars a month.. shame on you.. look at angry birds i bought all of their games and you want to pull your app and try over.. bad greedy developer.. and you did not even asked the op how his sales where.. but greedy, of course


@connector: you deleted your app point the finger to someone else? so you made an error and now someone else is the culprit? because it its more than well known that apps are being removed from the store over and over due to different reasons..? way to go.. like there is no way to make a backup on another hdd or dvd or whatever.. of course not..

its interesting to see that there are still some people in the digital age who think they own any software.. rather than they have the right to use them, which can be invoked in different ways.

in the end this is about reasonable expectations.. but apparently there does not exist a thing like common sense and the ability to differentiate on a case by case base..

as for rights for gamers? lol are you serious.. this is not even about a game..

this is getting absurd.. because you are not right (legally).. and apple gives refunds simply because as a good gesture.. but they are not forced todo so.. they could say no and that would be end of the story.

but thats a different story called customer care.. which a billion dollar company can pay for.. but a small indie developer most likely not..

so i don't understand what you are getting worked up about.. i hope you want to get paid in your dayjob too for what you do and don't be forced to work for free because a customer thinks he is entitled to it..

this is digital distributions and the only way to hold securly to the data is to back it up.. if you are allowed to (which you are)

so what happens if valve goes bankrupt? what happens if the appstore goes down etc. etc. "what happens if" is a childish game and pointless because anyone can only estimate and guess.

again i'm on both sides on the fence.. i'm a customer and a developer.. so i know both sides and everything is alot more complex than it seems.

greedy developers and cheap customers.. the old swan song..

app store customers are anything but cheap.. check out the trop grossing charts and see where all the people spend tons of cash in for in app currency etc. but then the users who moan about prices and make a fuss about refunding a dollar are not really representing the market out there anywhere.. its just a vocal minority who would probably never spend 100$ a month on virtual goods for their farm or castle

Wow, you got so many meandering points, I gotta get my iphone out to read your post as I respond here on my ipad.

I did read the whole 52 pages of the terms and agreements, and yes, Apple does clearly state, all sales are final.

But in reality, this is not true. Apple gives out refunds many times, for many issues, the main one being an app does on work on a certain device.

So reality of this clause isn't the whole picture. But you are right, a lot of these issues are customer service issues that Apple is being nice about, and trying to resolve in their own sort of way.

However, pulling apps (especially ones that you can not ever redownload from purchase ques), and coming back out with a new name and possibly new publishers are a totally different case.

Yes, technically it may be a sound business practice, but I hope you can see why so many others here have posted that it may not be a good idea. Or maybr you are one of those types that if it is legal, it is ok, no matter how unethical it may be.

And why do you use this 99 cent entitlement arguement in this debate? It should have nothing to do with the main arguement here whether it is a good thing to pull an app, change its name, and resell it.

And now, you mention things about our dayjobs and being forced to give away apps or services for free. What does that have to do with this arguement? I do feel for developers especially small indie shops that are forced sometimes to give away their apps for free, but that isn't necessarily the consumers fault, the developer has the option to stand his or her ground and not make it free.

So these two arguements add nothing to the arguement whether it is right for an app to get pulled just so a developer can reissue it for more money. Right? Or am I missing something?

Same thing goes for your greedy developers vs cheap consumers, greedy is being brought up here in this case cause it seems that is the real reason why a developer would want to do this. You seem to raise these issues for no other purpose than add fuel to the fire.

No one is saying that developers on a whole are greedy, no one here is saying consumers are all 99 cent gamers.

You say I deleted my app, no this is not true. I never did. I will explain in detail here, but isn't what happened.

I bought a game a long time ago on my iphone 4 called Crates Nightshift. I bought a new ipad 6 months ago, so wanted to put it on my new ipad. Couldn't find it in my itunes history, totally gone, not in previous purchases either.

You know going through 5000 items in my previous purchases was painful, but it was definitely gone. Couldn't figure out why.

One day, saw a game called Freight frenzy, which was the same game, everything the same, only different publisher.

I wrote to them, that I had bought the game, could not reload it anymore, could you possibly be nice and send me a promo code of the new named version? They wrote back, we feel your pain, and it's not right, now go write Apple about it for a refund.

I got frustrated, and stopped, but now I feel inspired again to go get a refund from Apple, will they or not cause it's been a long time since I bought it, I got no idea. But honestly, it is far easier to do the refund process than to sight here and argue about this with you about a stupid buck entitlement as you may call it.

You say oh, you can just make a backup. Well, my last laptop was stolen, so I don't have a regular computer at home anymore. So for me that is not really an option, plus it is a hassle even if you did have a laptop. Why should you do it, when most people expect apps to always be redownloadable.

Complete pullouts where you can't redownload them from purchase lists seem to happen for a couple of reasons such as trademark issues, games that are too buggy, breaking Apple's rules, or change of publisher.

I actually didn't want to post it initially cause I was worried that a developer would find this loophole useful and just keep changing their company name and reissue the same game. I really don't mind it if a developer wants to keep putting a game on the market, but don't do it in a way which doesn't let us reload the app at a future date.

If you are really a consumer too not just a developer, then you must have issues with disk space if you are an avid gamer. It is common practice for people to delete apps, making this impossible by having all of your games just a one time thing is very bad, and even Apple I think would not support this.

As for rights for gamers, yes, I should write it as rights for ios users...

If valve or any gaming company goes bankrupt, they should leave the game in the cloud so we can redownload it. Isn't that how it works now?

Yeah, you are right, there are always the crazy people that will buy a $100 inapp. Sometimes I think it's just kids using their parents cell phones. And the parents not really knowing they can go to Apple for a refund. I think Apple would refund this case too, but I got no idea. If parents are stupid enough to give their children their itunes password, then I really don't know who is at fault.

Anyway, my point is that it just isn't right for a developer to pull an app just for more sales or deletion of negative reviews, especially if it is completely pulled from the itunes purchased log.

I really doubt that a big name publisher and developer of a game like Cut the Rope could get away with it.

Far better is just make it a little better, change the title screens and release it as the second version of the game. It probably would still ruffle some ios users feathers a bit, but won't make them totally pissed off.

You know, I'm going to call pixelpower in to replace me, hopefully he can explain it better to you. Plus I like reading you twos discussions, much better than being involved personally myself like in this case.

Go Super Meebo go!

[MarcJay]

I have to say as someone that just released their first game very recently and had to put out a new version very quickly because of an awful bug (how about black boxes everywhere instead of graphics on ipad1 and ipad2..D'oh!), it's is tough sh-t on me if I get bad reviews or low stars (thankfully I did not as I caught the bug very quickly and apple was kind enough to expediate me through the queue in a day). Yeah, it's sucked getting up at 4am for 9 months straight to finish this thing while working another job, but once again tough sht on me. Yeah it sucks that my app is 99 cents because the market is pretty much 99 cents or free...once again tough sht on me. No one forced me to make a game as an indie in a crowded market. It's hard out there for a pimp, but I think, personally, we do owe our audience at the very least honesty and to keep striving to make our games better for them. Deleting a game completely to just remarket it just doesn't feel right. Blaming things on, sorry i forget the term used here, somethng like 99 cent gamers, seems like frustration and passing fault to someone else when the buck stops with the guys making te game, no? Whether its bugs, a crappy game, a bad app icon, bad marketing, cant see how that would be anyones fault but mine. Just my two cents though.

[Connector]

Originally Posted by MarcJay

No one forced me to make a game as an indie in a crowded market. It's hard out there for a pimp... Deleting a game completely to just remarket it just doesn't feel right. Blaming things on, sorry i forget the term used here, somethng like 99 cent gamers, seems like frustration and passing fault to someone else when the buck stops with the guys making te game, no? .

Wow, developer and pimp. Guess it is hard nowadays being an indie developer. I don't know how the issue of 99 cent gamers always comes up and how it relates to the issue on hand.

For developers to justify screwing gamers for what they perceive as 99 cent syndrome is not fair. Not all gamers are like that and it just shows a lack of respect to everyone including themselves.

[MarcJay]

Maybe I'm the trick, not the pimp? I do bad things for money. Just kidding. Trying to lighten the mood. I agree, connector, price shouldn't matter. Free, 99 cents, $20... Last time I checked the developer sets the price. Hard then to blame gamers after the fact for wanting a good product.

[Greyskull]

Originally Posted by LinQsta

Dear forum,

I plan on deleting my app from the App Store. It's been on the market for a month with sales have saturated. I have learnt a lot about the App Store dynamics which I did not know before and think I can make a better go of it if I try again.

Therefore the plan is to start again - deleting the app from the App Store and relaunching it with a new icon and new name.

Good idea? Would be interested to hear from members on this forum?

Regards
Mike

Good idea if you plan on taking advantage of prior customers. Personally, any dev or publisher who pulls a stunt like this instantly goes onto my "never purchase, or evem download free" list (and I damned well keep one).

And I do have a long memory. I will never touch a Glu game due to Beat It!, Dungeoun Solitaire (they bought the dev), and the Glyder series.

Not a perfect example; those apps were simply pulled.

[Greyskull]

I have posted treatise-sized rants about developer behavior on the appstore in the past, but I'm a more chill person at the moment. So I'll just say this: do what you will, face whatever consequences you might. I'm not sure what game you're selling; I was informed of this thread by another member. If you're selling a casual release, well, no one will remember in all likelihood; maybe it will be financially beneficial to you if you manage to crack the top lists on itunes.

You're competing with a veritable army on that front, of course.

If you target a niche audience, they will probably remember, and be none too happy. Unhappy customers don't just avoid future purchases; they discuss you. They warn about you. An app is an app, but branding sticks. Unless you change the company name and start over...though obtaining a good reputation can cost much more in terms of time and money than the development cost of one app.

I reward devs like Pik-Pok, for example, even if I think a new release is not my cup of tea. Why? Their apps don't change names, aren't watered down via "bug-fixing, optimising" updates, run solid, and stay available in the appstore.

Oh, and "prior purchases" don't work half the time (unless you are referring to reciepts...sure, it's great fun digging through years of reciepts, everyone LOVES being audited by the IRS for just that reason). And don't give me licensing. This isn't an argument over legality here. You won't endear youself to any customer by referring them to a software license.

Edit: sorry (again) for all the typos. They should become less of an issue for me if I pick up an ipad Mini (was a sure bet in the past, but appstore shenanigans are turning me off to the platform...and lets face it, ios is the platform, the platform is ios...Otherwise I would be on Android for the MicroSD card slots alone...I don't have a Mac, and don't need Apple).

[Greyskull]

Originally Posted by Connector

I've had games where the developer changed publishers, they pull the game COMPLETELY even can't get it from previous purchases. The new publisher just releases the game with a new name. Same game, now new publisher and name. Same developer.

This is crap, but it works, 2 of my games are like this. Reminds me to send a refund complaint to apple about this. Wonder if they will refund my money. One game was called crates nighshift, now it is freight frenzy.

I wrote to the publisher, they told me to write to apple. Couldn't believe they wouldn't at least just give me a promo code for the new game.

Anyway, you can go this route I'm sure, but don't recommend it. You will get hundreds of one star reviews, refund requests, and badmouthing from boards such as Toucharcade.

Don't do it, just make your game better then comeout with the game version 2 as a new game with new levels and such.

That's happened to me, though I forget the specifics. How did you discover this? I think for me, it was going into itunes on my PC, going into my apps list, and selecting the publisher after right clicking...then being led to a new publisher and noticing the same game.

[Connector]

Originally Posted by Greyskull

That's happened to me, though I forget the specifics. How did you discover this? I think for me, it was going into itunes on my PC, going into my apps list, and selecting the publisher after right clicking...then being led to a new publisher and noticing the same game.

I didn't notice it for awhile. When I bought my new ipad, I tried to load all my games to it. Crates nightshift couldn't find it anywhere even looking through my previous purchases twice. It takes over an hour to do cause I have downloaded over 5000 games.

So I was mad, but forgot about it, heck it was only a buck so didn't ask for a refund or inquire further.

Then two months later saw on another website that a game called freight frenzy was being released. It was the same exact game as before except the name and publisher changed.

If they didn't completely pull it, I wouldn't have been that pissed. But now I can't load it on my ipad, and feel forced to keep it on my iphone which I don't want it there to save disk space.

So I guess if you change your publisher you can just completely pull games and force many people to rebuy either for additional ios devices or force the people that had it temporarily deleted to rebuy.

Sad way to do it, but as Mr. Ugly would say, it is legal and a valid move.

I tried to get Pixelpower in here, but he is not accepting pms from anyone. Where are you Pixelpower when we need you the most to protect us from Mr. Ugly!!!

[Connector]

Originally Posted by Greyskull

Good idea if you plan on taking advantage of prior customers. Personally, any dev or publisher who pulls a stunt like this instantly goes onto my "never purchase, or evem download free" list (and I damned well keep one).

And I do have a long memory. I will never touch a Glu game due to Beat It!, Dungeoun Solitaire (they bought the dev), and the Glyder series.

Not a perfect example; those apps were simply pulled.

Waste of my time, but got some screenshots:

Old game was Crate's nightshift, see screenshots

http://www.148apps.com/reviews/crates-night-shift-hd/

New game Freight frenzy

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/freight-frenzy-full/id475874470?mt=8&ls=1

Negative itunes reviews complaing about Big Fish the publisher

http://appsylum.com/applications/itu...ight-frenzy-hd

Read the above link, it is obvious that some people are pissed.

I wrote to Big Fish about this. They said it wasn't right that it happened this way, only Apple could rectify it.

I wrote back to Big Fish, that another big publisher did this to me, but they gave me a promo code for the new game. Big fish just seemed indifferent and wrote back sorry but I would have to bring it up to Apple to get a refund.

So now I don't have a high regard of Big Fish, and Mr. Ugly has given me the will to fight for my buck and demand a refund from Apple.

Hehe, I'll just keep sending Apple copies of my long winded posts here. That should paralyze them reading all my crap haha. Even if they don't refund my buck, it will be fun just letting off some steam, haha.