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  #451  
Old 01-19-2013, 06:06 AM
MadFingerGames MadFingerGames is offline
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Originally Posted by andsoitgoes View Post
Take a Wii (original game) optimized for the system and stick it on an Xbox, I'm sure it won't run smoothly.

That said, I still believe in iOS and the iPad 4, along with all the upgrades it's made, as well as how tight the integration and optimization is versus android.

You say things that don't make much sense. They don't handle it in "the same way"? Unless there's a definition behind that, something to say for certain the iPad 4 GPU system is less powerful than the Tegra with proof other than "we couldn't do it", then it's just empty words. You clearly designed it with the Tegra in mind, so why would it work in the same way?

And that said, it would make sense for the Tegra to be better. It's been 3 months, the Tegra releases to the market when? Things coming after should be steps ahead. With the 4 being fairly iterative, that makes sense.

Oh and I would like to clarify something with all this iPad 5 in march nonsense, the only way that will happen is if they drop the new iPhone at the same time.

For the last 2 years now, the iPhone is the defining technology, the iPad then follows behind. Yes, it adds a bump but does not supersede heavily like would happen, unless its ala a slimmer profile with the same innards.

Thankfully, I am more than happy with my iPhone 5 and 4, it will take more than anyone or anything can offer to justify any sort of upgrade for the next long while. The games I play, the things I do, it's pointless. I don't play high graphic games anyway. I look at what I play, adventure, card and board, minor arcade games. All these graphicaly intense games don't really interest me much, unless you consider The Room, Machinarium, The Walking Dead and such, those are about as far as I go.

I truly wonder how many people are pining for a vita replacement? With this new turn to freemium and overwhelming micro transactions on iOS AND android, I still think people will prefer paying $30 - $40 once than spending $7 and then nickel and dime it over and over again.

Just to make it clear, I've no problem with IAP for expansions, more decks in card games, expansions in games like carcassone, etc. but anything else is extremely rare to be legit.

Dont get me wrong.. iPad 4/iPhone 5 are great devices and I love them.. I think that we are only one developer who was able to run our games on iPad3 withou any decrease in visual quality , in native resolution (retina) and 30fps.. So we are really trying optimize game for both platforms

As freemium vs premium. Its not black or white and there is not only one true. Its different from developer point of view or from players. Also a lot of players love freemium or f2p because they can play game for free..

Also there is different implementation of f2p, freemium.. I would call our games(ie Dead Trigger) as F2P, because you can play it without any dollar spend.. Some people can say, thats not true, because its hard in later levels.. But its not pay wall and its common that games are harder and harder wheb you are progressing in the game.. Also what is difference to buy game for 4.99 or every content in 4.99? Another thing is that you people could decide what they want and pay for it? You like minigun? You could buy it.. You like some melee weapons you can buy it..

I think that people sometimes think that because iap, they are missing some content and devs trying to rob them, but its extra content. Its like buying car. Are you upset on them, that you are missing some luxury in base model? I think its iAP too.. There is many examples like extended version of movies and bonuses, etc..

When you look at almost any premium game, it contain iap. It could be "chaets" to speedup progress or addition content. Even almost all console/pc games have DLC, avatars, icons and you have to pay for it. So its basically iAP too, but you have to buy this game for 60USD..

Please dont forget that its your decision how much money you will spend in game and also in which game.. And you are creating market, devs only adapting

Have a nice weekend

Last edited by MadFingerGames; 01-19-2013 at 09:29 AM.. Reason: Fixed typo in pay/play ;)
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  #452  
Old 01-19-2013, 08:46 AM
JBRUU JBRUU is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadFingerGames View Post
Dont get me wrong.. iPad 4/iPhone 5 are great devices and I love them.. I think that we are only one developer who was able to run our games on iPad3 withou any decrease in visual quality , in native resolution (retina) and 30fps.. So we are really trying optimize game for both platforms

As freemium vs premium. Its not black or white and there is not only one true. Its different from developer point of view or from players. Also a lot of players love freemium or f2p because they can play game for free..

Also there is different implementation of f2p, freemium.. I would call our games(ie Dead Trigger) as F2P, because you can pay it without any dollar spend.. Some people can say, thats not true, because its hard in later levels.. But its not play wall and its common that games are harder and harder wheb you are progressing in the game.. Also what is difference to buy game for 4.99 or every content in 4.99? Another thing is that you people could decide what they want and pay for it? You like minigun? You could buy it.. You like some melee weapons you can buy it..

I think that people sometimes think that because iap, they are missing some content and devs trying to rob them, but its extra content. Its like buying car. Are you upset on them, that you are missing some luxury in base model? I think its iAP too.. There is many examples like extended version of movies and bonuses, etc..

When you look at almost any premium game, it contain iap. It could be "chaets" to speedup progress or addition content. Even almost all console/pc games have DLC, avatars, icons and you have to pay for it. So its basically iAP too, but you have to buy this game for 60USD..

Please dont forget that its your decision how much money you will spend in game and also in which game.. And you are creating market, devs only adapting

Have a nice weekend
Thanks for that post, very interesting read. I would agree that there're some ways of implementing F2P that are better than others. You have a nice weekend too
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  #453  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:31 PM
Connector Connector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadFingerGames View Post
Dont get me wrong.. iPad 4/iPhone 5 are great devices and I love them.. I think that we are only one developer who was able to run our games on iPad3 withou any decrease in visual quality , in native resolution (retina) and 30fps.. So we are really trying optimize game for both platforms.
I do agree with you on this point. While Dead Trigger pushed the boundaries graphics wise, they followed through with that with the most solid framerates for a game of its kind. While other games like Nova 3 have just caught up framerate wise on my ipad 3, Dead Trigger has always been a benchmark to compare with other games on ios in terms of framerate and graphics. That's why I really look forward to Dead Trigger 2, it looks awesome in the screenshots.

And Madfinger has been one of the few companies who have done constant upgrades with new guns, arenas, and features. I bought the game originally for 99 cents, and for that value, I have gotten a lot of value. Even when it turned freemium, we all got a ton of money and the alien gun as an early adopter bonus. The alien gun to me was worth the buck I spent since it changed the feel of the game to a Terminator game which I much prefer over a simple Zombie shooter. Most companies just abandon their games.

That is why I posted above how companies like Madfinger, Gameloft, Chair, and EA should be given props for pushing the tech edge. Someone posted that Indies should be considered and supported too, and of course I agree, but essentially it is these leading companies that are pushing the edge, giving us a feel of console games on ios. There has been growing pains and pricing issues for all, but at least they are all trying, wrong or right.

Have a nice weekend.

Last edited by Connector; 01-19-2013 at 02:07 PM..
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  #454  
Old 01-19-2013, 11:28 PM
RebornProphet RebornProphet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadFingerGames View Post
Dont get me wrong.. iPad 4/iPhone 5 are great devices and I love them.. I think that we are only one developer who was able to run our games on iPad3 withou any decrease in visual quality , in native resolution (retina) and 30fps.. So we are really trying optimize game for both platforms

As freemium vs premium. Its not black or white and there is not only one true. Its different from developer point of view or from players. Also a lot of players love freemium or f2p because they can play game for free..

Also there is different implementation of f2p, freemium.. I would call our games(ie Dead Trigger) as F2P, because you can play it without any dollar spend.. Some people can say, thats not true, because its hard in later levels.. But its not pay wall and its common that games are harder and harder wheb you are progressing in the game.. Also what is difference to buy game for 4.99 or every content in 4.99? Another thing is that you people could decide what they want and pay for it? You like minigun? You could buy it.. You like some melee weapons you can buy it..

I think that people sometimes think that because iap, they are missing some content and devs trying to rob them, but its extra content. Its like buying car. Are you upset on them, that you are missing some luxury in base model? I think its iAP too.. There is many examples like extended version of movies and bonuses, etc..

When you look at almost any premium game, it contain iap. It could be "chaets" to speedup progress or addition content. Even almost all console/pc games have DLC, avatars, icons and you have to pay for it. So its basically iAP too, but you have to buy this game for 60USD..

Please dont forget that its your decision how much money you will spend in game and also in which game.. And you are creating market, devs only adapting

Have a nice weekend
Oh please ...

To say there is no difference between paying 4.99 for a game and 4.99 for IAP is ridiculous. When people pay 45 for a game on the Xbox or PS3, they don't mind paying for some IAP because their initial outlay at least bought them the whole game. I mean, I bought Gears of War when it came out on the 360 at launch. Over the following months they rolled out Map packs for the multiplayer side of the game, such as the Raven Down pack. I bought these packs immediately because it was GOOD VALUE IAP, it added value to my game, and I'd already paid in full to experience the actual game, the campaign mode in single or co-op mode.

In Dead Trigger I found it utterly cynical to show a cut scene where your character loses his main weapon and is left with a simple pistol, a weapon which up to a certain point you cannot find more ammo for.

Eventually you are over run and feel forced, as the player, to spend money just to stand a chance. To say it's not a paywall is a joke, as when left with only the pistol I could not obtain enough ammo within the level to survive and the game has not been back on any of my iOS devices since. Your IAP is not good value, it's structured in a way to frustrate the player into spending money on a bigger gun.

When are developers going to realise that this model turns off players? Enticing someone in with a free app (I actually paid the 99p for Dead Trigger on day one) only to infuriate them at the sense of restriction makes gamers feel conned. Most people like to know, up front, that they pay x-amount and receive a certain amount of premium gameplay. Your argument that you can continue playing without any IAP is a lie, because without IAP you will eventually hit a level where a pistol is not enough.

I paid 10.99 for Final Fantasy 4 and War of the Lions, I paid 9.99 for Dodonpachi Resurrection HD, I paid 12.99 for The World Ends With You on iPad, there ARE gamers out there who WILL pay premium prices for proper, full length titles. Sure, there are equally as many gamers who thrive on the free/low cost nature of mobile gaming, but people need to realise as devices get more powerful that the titles will take on console-esque budgets to create as time passes. These costs need to be recouped via higher app prices, I get that.

Why not release a freemium and premium model? 0 gets you the app, a demo basically, that you can pay to progress through but at a higher end cost (cost of all IAP comes to more than premium model, but is compensated by giving that gamer the choice to pay as and when). Charge 9.99 for the full game, bells and whistles, all content included. Trust me, if the campaign mode is good enough then people will pay, me included.

I'd love to see Dead Trigger 2 be longer levels, and be less focused on short and snappy missions where it's the objective to get to an open gate. Sadly, I feel this game may also prove a stretch too far for my iPad 3 given the quality of the visuals!
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  #455  
Old 01-20-2013, 04:55 AM
MadFingerGames MadFingerGames is offline
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Originally Posted by RebornProphet View Post
Oh please ...
In Dead Trigger I found it utterly cynical to show a cut scene where your character loses his main weapon and is left with a simple pistol, a weapon which up to a certain point you cannot find more ammo for.
Yup, thats was our big mistake.. Its one of the most weird thing in DT development

The idea was show game how it will looks in later levels. Sometimes devs use it even in big games. For example latest God Of War.. But it turns againts us,because paymium/freemium, people understood it in different way. so we changed it..

Best

Marek
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  #456  
Old 01-20-2013, 04:10 PM
Connector Connector is offline
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Pretty interesting article here, and great release chart. This one expert is predicting a later in the year release for the ipad 5, iphone 5s, and ipad mini 2.

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/01/t...ing-until-fall

He is predicting a much smaller ipad 5 with a form factor like the ipad mini bevels, and also that the ipad 2 mini will be retina.

Sounds like ios 6.1 is coming soon too...

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2013/01/a...ter-of-ios-6-1

Last edited by Connector; 01-20-2013 at 04:38 PM..
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  #457  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:29 PM
RebornProphet RebornProphet is offline
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Originally Posted by MadFingerGames View Post
Yup, thats was our big mistake.. Its one of the most weird thing in DT development

The idea was show game how it will looks in later levels. Sometimes devs use it even in big games. For example latest God Of War.. But it turns againts us,because paymium/freemium, people understood it in different way. so we changed it..

Best

Marek
Interesting that you only quoted this part of my post.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but did you see the other, very valid and fair points in my post?
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  #458  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:22 AM
MadFingerGames MadFingerGames is offline
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Originally Posted by RebornProphet View Post
Interesting that you only quoted this part of my post.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but did you see the other, very valid and fair points in my post?
It was Sunday Also, I think it was main point, because you said, that remove M4 was pay wall. Anyway, Ill try to reply on other points too


Quote:
Originally Posted by RebornProphet View Post
Oh please ...

To say there is no difference between paying 4.99 for a game and 4.99 for IAP is ridiculous. When people pay 45 for a game on the Xbox or PS3, they don't mind paying for some IAP because their initial outlay at least bought them the whole game. I mean, I bought Gears of War when it came out on the 360 at launch. Over the following months they rolled out Map packs for the multiplayer side of the game, such as the Raven Down pack. I bought these packs immediately because it was GOOD VALUE IAP, it added value to my game, and I'd already paid in full to experience the actual game, the campaign mode in single or co-op mode.

In Dead Trigger I found it utterly cynical to show a cut scene where your character loses his main weapon and is left with a simple pistol, a weapon which up to a certain point you cannot find more ammo for.

Eventually you are over run and feel forced, as the player, to spend money just to stand a chance. To say it's not a paywall is a joke, as when left with only the pistol I could not obtain enough ammo within the level to survive and the game has not been back on any of my iOS devices since. Your IAP is not good value, it's structured in a way to frustrate the player into spending money on a bigger gun.
As I said, sometimes design idea sounds good, but fail in real world. For some people is iAP RED FLAG and every design feature is forcing them to pay. Game is harder, its because iAP. You lose equip, its because iAP. I think that almost every developer wants to create fun game, sure there are some exceptions. But we are still small indie team and not EA, GLU, GAMELOFT with several thousand employees and shares on the market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RebornProphet View Post
When are developers going to realise that this model turns off players? Enticing someone in with a free app (I actually paid the 99p for Dead Trigger on day one) only to infuriate them at the sense of restriction makes gamers feel conned. Most people like to know, up front, that they pay x-amount and receive a certain amount of premium gameplay. Your argument that you can continue playing without any IAP is a lie, because without IAP you will eventually hit a level where a pistol is not enough.
You are saying that you have only one weapon for game cash and all others weapons are for golds ? Thats not true. You can earn money in the game and you can buy other weapons without spending any gold. I said it several times. Our team tested it without any iAP and game is fully playable without spending any real money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RebornProphet View Post
I paid 10.99 for Final Fantasy 4 and War of the Lions, I paid 9.99 for Dodonpachi Resurrection HD, I paid 12.99 for The World Ends With You on iPad, there ARE gamers out there who WILL pay premium prices for proper, full length titles. Sure, there are equally as many gamers who thrive on the free/low cost nature of mobile gaming, but people need to realise as devices get more powerful that the titles will take on console-esque budgets to create as time passes. These costs need to be recouped via higher app prices, I get that.
Premium games dont make money anymore, they cost a lot of money, more difficult to develop and very simple to steal ;(

Look at charts.. For example for Top Paid iPhone ? How many Premium "Console like" games are there ? Look at Top Grossing: How many any premium games are there ? In TOP 25 there is only ONE premium game !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebornProphet View Post
Why not release a freemium and premium model? 0 gets you the app, a demo basically, that you can pay to progress through but at a higher end cost (cost of all IAP comes to more than premium model, but is compensated by giving that gamer the choice to pay as and when). Charge 9.99 for the full game, bells and whistles, all content included. Trust me, if the campaign mode is good enough then people will pay, me included.
Sorry, but people are not willing to pay for premium apps anymore.. Look at Modern Combat 4 or Ravensword 2 for example. They were in top grossing for few days and they are falling like rock. Best Result is - Modern Combat 4 - Top 15 Ravensword 2 Top 50.

In the past it was better Shadowgun Top 3, Modern Combat 3 Top 1 in Grossing..

Releasing two games sounds good, but there are two cons:

First - two games in leaderboards and this means lower rank
Second - 60-90% of people will steal premium game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RebornProphet View Post
I'd love to see Dead Trigger 2 be longer levels, and be less focused on short and snappy missions where it's the objective to get to an open gate. Sadly, I feel this game may also prove a stretch too far for my iPad 3 given the quality of the visuals!
We will try to do best, but mission time will be 5 minutes max again

Marek R.
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  #459  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:25 AM
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metalcasket metalcasket is offline
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Looks like this thread needs some cleaning up.
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  #460  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:39 AM
MadFingerGames MadFingerGames is offline
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Originally Posted by metalcasket View Post
Looks like this thread needs some cleaning up.
yup, I didnt want to hijack this thread.. Feel free to remove posts about Dead Trigger

Best

Marek R.
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