HDMI out and gaming

[killercow]

Originally Posted by Connector

Does ipad 2 output mirrored games in 720p? I think my new ipad is outputting mirrored games in 1080p, cause it looks much better than hd tv which is 1080i.

Also, how can retina ipad not affect the tv graphics? On my tv, graphics for retina ipad games look so much better than ipad 2 resolution games. It doesn't even seem close at all. So what your saying about retina not affecting the image on tv kind of puzzled me, I would have to disagree.

It seems like to me that everything on my new ipad screen is converted directly into 1080p format, so since ipad retina is so much sharper than ipad 2 resolution, it will display much better. Not ipad retina quality, but far better than ipad 2.

Let me know what you think. There seems to be so few people that have experienced the wonders of hdmi, it is confusing cause no one seems to know a lot of the technical aspects of hdmi, airplay, and mirroring perfectly.

Well the retina itself doesn't impact the resolution mirrored on the tv AFAIK. But the increase in spec means that a game that was built with the ipad 3+ in mind can have new effects/better textures than the same game played on an older ipad.

I think that, for games, it is 720p unless the game is meant to be fullscreen. There it runs at 1080p (but it cold be just upscaled too)

[Connector]

Originally Posted by killercow

Well the retina itself doesn't impact the resolution mirrored on the tv AFAIK. But the increase in spec means that a game that was built with the ipad 3+ in mind can have new effects/better textures than the same game played on an older ipad.

I think that, for games, it is 720p unless the game is meant to be fullscreen. There it runs at 1080p (but it cold be just upscaled too)

I would tend to disagree. And I'm talking about non Airplay games, games in mirrored mode only. The games that I play with ipad retina on my tv look far far better than 1080i hdtv (I put the hd in for you Greyskull). I would have to say it is 1080p. I can tell a big difference in upscaled 720p on my tv vs 1080i. And 1080p is even better. The hdmi on my tv is shockingly good. So that makes me believe it is 1080p for sure.

I'm not expert on this, but I would figure that you have the original ipad resolution either retina or ipad 2, then it is converted to 1080p. Since ipad 2 resolution is worse than 1080p which is 1920x 1080, the hdmi converter UPSCALES the image.

However, on a retina ipad, since ipad retina is better than 1080p resolution, the image is DOWNSCALED. Downscaling always looks better than upscaling, and since ipad retina is pretty close to 1080p native resolution, I think that is why I am seeing a huge difference in ipad 2 res games and ipad retina games.

What I got no idea on is if the ipad 2 is outputting mirrored games in 720p or 1080p. I think my new ipad is outputting 1080p converted ipad retina graphics. There seems so much confusion out there in airplay, mirroring, and what is what with hd, 1080p, 720p, so it is confusing.

I maybe totally off base though, just going by what I think and see. What do you think of my logic?

[Connector]

Originally Posted by nightc1

I can already hook it up to my tv through my Apple TV with AirPlay since I'm on a 4S. I think I can get an HDMI cable to... infact I may order one today if there are any on Newegg. I have some computer purchases to make anyway.

Night,

I have a couple of questions. First, how well does apple tv mirror games that are not airplay? I hear there is a delay, lag, and sometimes intermittent wireless loss. Is a mirrored game playeable?

How does an iphone look on apple tv mirrored mode with tv on stretch mode? Does it look anything like an arcade? How good is the resolution? Do you have a lot of borders? Can you get rid of the borders in portrait mode using the tv modes?

I really wonder how iphone hdmi would work. It should be pretty good I figure, but not close to ipad retina. Also the borders would be a lot bigger I figure. Well let me know, and hopefully you will get hdmi too, I really wonder how mirrored iphone hdmi games would look like.

Let me know. Thanks!

[killercow]

Originally Posted by Connector

I would tend to disagree. And I'm talking about non Airplay games, games in mirrored mode only. The games that I play with ipad retina on my tv look far far better than 1080i hdtv (I put the hd in for you Greyskull). I would have to say it is 1080p. I can tell a big difference in upscaled 720p on my tv vs 1080i. And 1080p is even better. The hdmi on my tv is shockingly good. So that makes me believe it is 1080p for sure.

I'm not expert on this, but I would figure that you have the original ipad resolution either retina or ipad 2, then it is converted to 1080p. Since ipad 2 resolution is worse than 1080p which is 1920x 1080, the hdmi converter UPSCALES the image.

However, on a retina ipad, since ipad retina is better than 1080p resolution, the image is DOWNSCALED. Downscaling always looks better than upscaling, and since ipad retina is pretty close to 1080p native resolution, I think that is why I am seeing a huge difference in ipad 2 res games and ipad retina games.

What I got no idea on is if the ipad 2 is outputting mirrored games in 720p or 1080p. I think my new ipad is outputting 1080p converted ipad retina graphics. There seems so much confusion out there in airplay, mirroring, and what is what with hd, 1080p, 720p, so it is confusing.

I maybe totally off base though, just going by what I think and see. What do you think of my logic?

This is an interesting theory but i'm pretty sure that the image displayed for apps is in 720p. It's written on the apple store and it is logical. But the fact that it actually downscale rather than upscale could be the answer to the difference in image quality. 1080p would cover the entire screen.

About the Iphone in airplay: A bit of lag but no disconnection albeit with a lower quality than hdmi. It is displayed like the ipad so the ratio is the screen of the iphone (so it's rather small and in portrait it's even smaller). I haven't tried tinkering with the modes on my tv to make it fullscreen though.

Edit: But nightc1 is correct, when a game is made for airplay it plays in fullscreen just like an ipad 2/3/4...

[nightc1]

Originally Posted by Connector

Night,

I have a couple of questions. First, how well does apple tv mirror games that are not airplay? I hear there is a delay, lag, and sometimes intermittent wireless loss. Is a mirrored game playeable?

It depends on the game, where the router & AppleTV are and the capabilities of the router. Some games play remarkably well, some are so designed around specific touch inputs that AirPlay is better for showing other people a game. For games made specifically for it like Asphalt 6, it can be heavenly since the screen of the iPhone changes to being a map and continues to be a controller so really there's no need to even look at the phone. Overall racing games seem to be made better over airplay. But yes there can be lag and other issues depending on how weak a network it is and so on.

Originally Posted by Connector

How does an iphone look on apple tv mirrored mode with tv on stretch mode? Does it look anything like an arcade? How good is the resolution? Do you have a lot of borders? Can you get rid of the borders in portrait mode using the tv modes?

I think it looks pretty phenomenal. I don't stretch games that are portrait mode but landscape games that don't go full widescreen look good stretched. Typically if the app is designed with AirPlay in mind and it's universal then it takes on a full widescreen stance so there aren't any borders. Those that do have borders typically will stretch full screen without much distortion at all. It all changes from game to game.

Originally Posted by Connector

I really wonder how iphone hdmi would work. It should be pretty good I figure, but not close to ipad retina. Also the borders would be a lot bigger I figure. Well let me know, and hopefully you will get hdmi too, I really wonder how mirrored iphone hdmi games would look like.

Let me know. Thanks!

Unless my research is way off... iPhone HDMI is the same as AirPlay minus the chance of lag. I'd imagine that's the premium way to play. If the game is a universal build and optimized for airplay then the resolution should be the same as an iPad doing HDMI out for those games. So don't think of an iPhone as being stuck in it's limited Retina resolution. It can pump out fullscreen no-border gaming.

I figure my use of an HDMI cable will be for the upstairs tv in the bedroom since it sits on a desk and it could be a good place to chill in my desk chair and play some racing games or other games that I think may benefit from the bigger display. For the most part, I'm cool gaming on the iPhone screen... but some games just seem to benefit a lot from the big screen. Asphalt6 being high on that list.

[Connector]

Originally Posted by killercow

This is an interesting theory but i'm pretty sure that the image displayed for apps is in 720p. It's written on the apple store and it is logical. But the fact that it actually downscale rather than upscale could be the answer to the difference in image quality. 1080p would cover the entire screen.

About the Iphone in airplay: A bit of lag but no disconnection albeit with a lower quality than hdmi. It is displayed like the ipad so the ratio is the screen of the iphone (so it's rather small and in portrait it's even smaller). I haven't tried tinkering with the modes on my tv to make it fullscreen though.

So you believe mirrored games on the ipad 2 are 720p? What do you think the ipad 3/4 are, 1080p? Or 720p? You know, on my regular tv, it always shows what mode its in, 720p or 1080i. But in hdmi, it says nothing. I'm actually wondering now what hdmi standard is, I always thought it was 1080p, but maybe it's even higher.

Yeah, all this stuff is a little confusing, even for me an electrical engineer and computer guru, all this stuff is confusing cause no one seems to know. I even go to apple stores, and a lot of those staff don't know all of the answers.

Man, I would highly recommend to tinker with the tv zoom modes. I am sure it varies by tv, but if I didn't have all of them, I don't think I would enjoy hdmi unless I sat 5 ft from the tv due to the borders.

My tv has 5 different modes, normal, wide, zoom, stretch, and panorama.

I'm talking more about landscape games than portrait cause it's harder to stretch portrait games.

Normal - normal
Wide - zoomed in a little with same aspect ratio as normal but wider.
Zoom - really zoomed in, probably like 50% of the old screen is now full screen
Stretch - forced fullscreen (totally awesome, use this most often!!!)
Panorama - force picture into funky panorama format with borders

I actually use each mode differently with games. Rarely use normal mode cause, it is small and borders. Wide is ok, but isn't quite full screen, but this is the most realistic mode. Uses about 3/4 of the screen.

Panorama is kind of junk other than to make a real long hallway affect, but its got borders big time.

Zoom works GREAT on iphone only or games with borders like Dariusburst or Deathsmiles. With zoom mode, it is full screen and all of the borders from 2x mode or games are gone. Wow, dariusburst and deathsmiles look oh so good, better than in the arcades. Iphone games play well in zoom mode too, very little borders.

Stretch mode, I use the most. It basically just stretchs the ipad screen to fullscreen. While it does distort the screen a little by the stretching, after you get used to it, it actually looks great. It makes it look more widescreen and have a hallway affect. It is great for racing games, shmups, dual sticks, runners and platformers.

Without stretch, I don't think I would enjoy hdmi nearly as much. It is that drastic of a difference. Of course, this all depends on your tv, some people may have a lot of modes, some people very few. Give it a try, especially stretch mode, and let me know what you think.

Too bad there is no real easy way to make portrait games stretched, while I would like a mode that did it, the distortion would probably be huge. It seems that a lot of puzzle games are portrait mode, and other kinds of games are mostly landscape. But I suppose it doesn't make a difference that much cause puzzle games are kind of hard to play on hdmi tv cause you have to look at where you press.

[killercow]

Originally Posted by Connector

So you believe mirrored games on the ipad 2 are 720p? What do you think the ipad 3/4 are, 1080p? Or 720p? You know, on my regular tv, it always shows what mode its in, 720p or 1080i. But in hdmi, it says nothing. I'm actually wondering now what hdmi standard is, I always thought it was 1080p, but maybe it's even higher.

There's no typical HDMI standard. Nowadays it's 1080p but it will support the 4k resolution (and you can use it with any computer screen so it goes even higher). I still believe, based on how it's worded in the apple store and the fact that it isn't full screen that it's 720p for every ipad. Apart from those games supporting tv-out of course.

[Connector]

Originally Posted by killercow

There's no typical HDMI standard. Nowadays it's 1080p but it will support the 4k resolution (and you can use it with any computer screen so it goes even higher). I still believe, based on how it's worded in the apple store and the fact that it isn't full screen that it's 720p for every ipad. Apart from those games supporting tv-out of course.

I looked in the applestore for hdmi specs in mirrored mode. Here it is:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD...tal-av-adapter

If you look under overview, it reads:

Use the Apple Digital AV Adapter to mirror whatever’s on your iPad or iPhone 4S screen — apps, presentations, websites, and more — on your HDTV or HDMI-compatible display in up to 1080p HD (movies play at up to 720p).

-------

So I read this to mean all ipads 2,3,4 and output in 1080p. Now, it says up to, that us vague, could mean the ipad 2&mini hdmi mirroring is 720p.

But who knows, to me, the graphics in my tv look super sharp, better than regular hdtv. Which would seem to me, 1080p and my explanation above for retina ipads. Again, it maybe different for the ipad 2 if it is outputting 720p.

Funny thing is when I googled for an answer, two of the first page search results led to our TA thread! See below:

https://www.google.com/search?q=are+...&client=safari

Scroll down and you will see us, haha. So we maybe some of the world's best experts in ipad hdmi mirroring to a tv. Sigh... Wish more people will be joining us with this amazing tech demo. Well, at least 10 people has responded to my post that they are going to buy hdmi, so that is good, even Syntheticvoid said he will be getting one soon. So more people will be joining us soon.

And remember to try stretch mode on your tv. You had both apple tv and hdmi, with an ipad 2, right?

[killercow]

Originally Posted by Connector

I looked in the applestore for hdmi specs in mirrored mode. Here it is:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD...tal-av-adapter

If you look under overview, it reads:

Use the Apple Digital AV Adapter to mirror whatever’s on your iPad or iPhone 4S screen — apps, presentations, websites, and more — on your HDTV or HDMI-compatible display in up to 1080p HD (movies play at up to 720p).

-------

So I read this to mean all ipads 2,3,4 and output in 1080p. Now, it says up to, that us vague, could mean the ipad 2&mini hdmi mirroring is 720p.

But who knows, to me, the graphics in my tv look super sharp, better than regular hdtv. Which would seem to me, 1080p and my explanation above for retina ipads. Again, it maybe different for the ipad 2 if it is outputting 720p.

And remember to try stretch mode on your tv. You had both apple tv and hdmi, with an ipad 2, right?

I had an ipad 2 but i sold it when I bought my 3rd (and then 4th...) gen. Otherwise I could test to see the difference. The quote from the apple store says that it's "Up to" meaning that it can go that high but it's not always the case. And I still think that it's only for hdmi enabled apps. Nevertheless i'm sure that the retina is affecting it either through downscaling or by using those better specs.

[nightc1]

Originally Posted by Connector

If you look under overview, it reads:

Use the Apple Digital AV Adapter to mirror whatever’s on your iPad or iPhone 4S screen — apps, presentations, websites, and more — on your HDTV or HDMI-compatible display in up to 1080p HD (movies play at up to 720p)

There is no fixed standard. Each developer can decide how to implement video over AirPlay AppleTV/HDMI... and for many the bare bones mirroring is put in there. But when I go into landscape games scale through the appletv to the height resolution of the tv. Some games are special. Air Mail for instance runs with black borders all around it but because it's an iPhone app, it puts out a 13.5:9 image (translated from 1.5:1) which when zoomed in fits 16:9 a lot better than the standard 4:3 (which translates to 12:9) iPad resoltion. So technically speaking, for unoptimized mirroring the iPhone actually puts out an image that's less distorted when scaling to a tv and with fewer boarders when zooming than an iPad. But both can put out a completely different resolution through HDMI/AirPlay if the developer takes advantage of it. Asphalt 6 is the best example I can think of. The game is something like 720p over airplay while the screen on my phone becomes a map. Or video camera recording at 1080p, and over airplay I can watch that in full widescreen on my tv but on my iPhone it would have black borders on the top and bottom. Not as thick as the black borders the ipad would show for video, but still some borders because the screen is 1.5:1 (13.5:9) instead of 16x9 like the iPhone/PodTouch 5.

So the whining about iPhone 5 support for many I'd imagine is also the same for full tv resolution support in games. Seems like an iPhone5 would be the best device for hdmi play for games that take advantage of that extra space.