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Doom Resurrection Pricing Discussion

06-29-2009, 07:26 PM
#1
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 315
Doom Resurrection Pricing Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by theone1007 View Post
Are you kidding me right now? Values for iPhone games are so high compared to the actual price. If Firemint sold Real Racing on the PSP, it would easily sell for $25. If Flight Control was available for WiiWare, it would easily sell for $5-$10. If Flick Fishing was available for PSP, it could sell for almost $15.

You're ridiculous. I believe that App Store pricing needs to change. These $0.99 game sales are getting way out of hand, the consumer is now expecting games to be priced like this. I mean really, mobile games for other platforms are $4-$6, and they aren't even half as good as iPhone versions. I bought Galaga for my Razr for $6, the price for the iPhone remade and classic version.

Really, App Store pricing needs to change, and people like you are the ones that are ruining the App Store economy and making it a cheap place full of games that should be sold for more.
You're talking about entirely different markets. Of course games cost more on the DS/PSP/whatever. That's because they are fixed at those prices. If developers started retailing games for $10 on those consoles, you could expect a hell of a lot more $10 games. On the iPhone, there are a ton of $1, $2, $3, etc. games. These prices are set by the consumer. Consumers want lower priced apps, and they get it. That's how the market works. Boo hoo for developers, but great for consumers.

Welcome to economics 101. Class dismissed.
06-29-2009, 07:39 PM
#2
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 5,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by florbastang View Post
You're talking about entirely different markets. Of course games cost more on the DS/PSP/whatever. That's because they are fixed at those prices. If developers started retailing games for $10 on those consoles, you could expect a hell of a lot more $10 games. On the iPhone, there are a ton of $1, $2, $3, etc. games. These prices are set by the consumer. Consumers want lower priced apps, and they get it. That's how the market works. Boo hoo for developers, but great for consumers.

Welcome to economics 101. Class dismissed.
First of all, if it's a class, it's Economics 101, that's English 101. To the more important point, your argument is ridiculous. How in the hell are the DS/PSP prices "fixed" at higher prices while iDevice games are "fixed" at less than a buck. The answer is they're not. What seems to have happened is that many smaller developers made apps (fart apps and the like) that don't take a lot of effort and priced them at a reasonable $.99. Soon, people expected to pay a buck or two for an app. One economics (see how it's lower case when it's not a class?) principle you have correct is supply and demand. If cheap bastards will only accept $.99 apps (demand), what we will end up with are the beforementioned fart apps and free advertising "games" saturating the market (supply). Soon, thanks to consumers who have undervalued this market, true game developers like id who have just released a slam-dunk awesome freaking game BTW, will sadly abandon this platform just when it was beginning to show its full potential. Continue to b***h and moan about 10 dollar apps (the ones that are worth it anyway, and there have been quite a few), and the only devs left will be Khalid freakin Sheik or whatever his name is. And by the way, if consumers set the prices games would be free.

06-29-2009, 07:55 PM
#3
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodapp View Post
From the John Carmack interview-



I guess if you prefer dull time wasters and fart apps to full fledged games with a budget, sure, continue raging against the machine at any developer who has the audacity to try to recuperate their development investment and *gasp* turn a profit on a video game by selling it for more than 99.

I'm not sure who the "us" you're referring to is, but as someone who enjoys these games that do more than a typical match three, please don't include me in that.
Why do you feel the need to trivialize my argument. Please really utilize any reading comprehension skills you may have. I don't buy fart apps or "time wasters." Let's take a quick review of the high quality and/or long-lasting $0.99 iPhone games: Uniwar, Hero of Sparta, Car Jack Streets, Peggle (not any more, though), Bionic Surfer, etc. These are all high quality games with much more longevity and replayability of this Doom game. Sure, they may not have the bling of Doom, but their overall quality is right up there with Doom.

If John Carmack doesn't want to make high quality, lower priced (as in $5 and under) games or at least ones with a gameplay length of more than 2-3 hours at $10 (again, I refer to the $1 per 1 hour rule of thumb), that's his problem. Other developers will. I'll buy from them. If you want to pay a premium for a quick thrill, that's your prerogative.
06-29-2009, 07:59 PM
#4
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booch138 View Post
Are you kidding me man? I think you need to understand the App Market, or marketing in general, more then... it's becoming disastrous with these .99 cent apps.

First off.. all the games you listed that provide lengthy gameplay arn't even Shooters. Second, of the list you mentioned, RealRacing is the only one that pushes graphics like Doom Res.

3rdly, John Carmack himself said, if we want premium games, were going to have to start paying premium prices. I agree, though I don't nessisarily like it, its the truth. Games of this caliber are NOT cheap to make man. You can't expect every developer to give out games for the prices they do and stay afloat, especially ones that cost a lot to make, like Doom Res (I can only imagine)

2-3 Hours is more than enough for a portable device. If I want to play a 5+ hour game I am going to play my 360/PS3/PC.
How are $0.99 apps disastrous for the App market? Please explain that to me with credible evidence.

Why do we have to pay a premium price ($10) for high quality games? Other developers are pumping out high quality games for much less. Why should I buy from develops who feel like they're above the market and can charge more?

And are people really buying games based on eye candy these games? Sure, Doom really pushes the graphics on the iPhone, but is that really going to matter when the app gets deleted after the 2-3 hour stint. Wouldn't rather have a game that you'll be playing 15, 20, 40 hours down the road?

Look, everyone needs to stop comparing this to the console market. This is an entirely different market with different consumers and different principles of economics. You can't compare them.
06-29-2009, 08:00 PM
#5
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiffyone View Post
I don't think you really got flamed. And don't keep your opinions to yourself. Voice them. You have every right to do so, after all. Just understand that opinions will bring out other opinions.



As is your right. Don't like the genre? Seek another sort of game. Don't like the price? Seek a less expensive option. You are perfectly entitled to both as you are the consumer, and the final arbiter of on what you spend your hard earned money.

But let's judge this game on what it is (rail shooter) rather than what it isn't (FPS). I know a lot of people would rather have an FPS. You guys will get it with DOOM Classic. But let's not poo-poo on the idea of id branching out the franchise. An on rail DOOM, IMHO, is as feasible as a DOOM RPG, which we've already got on other mobile platforms and soon will have on iTouch/Phone.
Did you just say poo-poo?

I'm actually really looking forward to Doom Classic. I'm leaving the country for a few weeks starting Saturday and I don't think it'll be out by then. This should settle my craving until I'm back, though... I think

GameCenter: NotYou_ver1.0
06-29-2009, 08:02 PM
#6
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by florbastang View Post
Let's take a quick review of the high quality and/or long-lasting $0.99 iPhone games: Uniwar, Hero of Sparta, Car Jack Streets, Peggle (not any more, though), Bionic Surfer, etc.
You can't compare launch day Doom pricing with Hero of Sparta bargain bin pricing, or any other sale pricing. Hero of Sparta was $9.99 on launch has pretty short playtime.

arn
06-29-2009, 08:02 PM
#7
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by florbastang View Post
You're talking about entirely different markets. Of course games cost more on the DS/PSP/whatever. That's because they are fixed at those prices. If developers started retailing games for $10 on those consoles, you could expect a hell of a lot more $10 games. On the iPhone, there are a ton of $1, $2, $3, etc. games. These prices are set by the consumer. Consumers want lower priced apps, and they get it. That's how the market works. Boo hoo for developers, but great for consumers.

Welcome to economics 101. Class dismissed.
C-. See me after class.

Consumers do not set the price. Developers do. Developers simply adjust pricing based on what the market will bear.

Let me repeat that.

They adjust pricing based on what the market will bear. Not what the market wants to pay. What it's willing to pay, which is generally the point where there are more people buying than whining.

The App Store however started off early as a different market altogether. One that quickly became dominated by new developers wanting to turn a quick buck by pricing as cheaply as possible in order to get as many sales as possible. This has been exacerbated by the rating system and the top lists that both encourage quantity of sales over revenue generated from them, which is a piss-poor metric to judge the quality of anything by. That in turn engendered other developers -- larger developers -- to follow the same model in order to play the new system's game in order to get recognized and gain visibility. This has only continued to get worse -- and unfortunately, it still works in Apple's favour so they have nothing to encourage them to change it to something more sensible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skamando View Post
Well, I got flamed. Next time, I think I'll just chill with my opinions. Instead of bursting, I'll just keep em to myself so I don't get eaten. Lol and common sense just now kicks in. My straightforward opinion: I'm not huge on on-rail shooters, and this just didn't interest me all that much. Also, I think that $10 is a bit much for any game on the app store. Yeah, I get the whole "most games are $60" arguement, but I don't have the cash to spend either of those amounts on a game I'm not all that interested. Sorry.
$10 is too expensive for you <--------------------------------------------> $10 is too high for software

Two statements with a world of difference. The one on the left end of the spectrum is your opinion of prices based on your ability to spare that kind of money for a game. The one on the right is a blanket statement offered as fact that is based on your financial situation. Oddly enough, not everyone shares your financial situation, which tends to mean that not everyone thinks prices are unreasonable.

Let's put it this way: If you knew first hand what went into the making of the average game -- the time, the effort, and for developers that can afford to do so, the money put into it -- you too would cringe every time you saw a good game sell for $0.99. My cojones have taken up permanent residence in my kidneys from seeing so many great titles whoring themselves out for a pittance.

[Relax with Galactic Chill] [Let me tell you a story.]
Currently working on: Music for Spirit Hunter Mineko
06-29-2009, 08:03 PM
#8
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Milan,Italy
Posts: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzlakalonji View Post
First of all, if it's a class, it's Economics 101, that's English 101. To the more important point, your argument is ridiculous. How in the hell are the DS/PSP prices "fixed" at higher prices while iDevice games are "fixed" at less than a buck. The answer is they're not. What seems to have happened is that many smaller developers made apps (fart apps and the like) that don't take a lot of effort and priced them at a reasonable $.99. Soon, people expected to pay a buck or two for an app. One economics (see how it's lower case when it's not a class?) principle you have correct is supply and demand. If cheap bastards will only accept $.99 apps (demand), what we will end up with are the beforementioned fart apps and free advertising "games" saturating the market (supply). Soon, thanks to consumers who have undervalued this market, true game developers like id who have just released a slam-dunk awesome freaking game BTW, will sadly abandon this platform just when it was beginning to show its full potential. Continue to b***h and moan about 10 dollar apps (the ones that are worth it anyway, and there have been quite a few), and the only devs left will be Khalid freakin Sheik or whatever his name is. And by the way, if consumers set the prices games would be free.
Actually peoples that you call "cheap bastards" are the mainstream market,because the iphone is...a phone not a game device
For the same reason games are not as good as the console counterpart and the price is lower.
And this game can be considered a good phone game but nothing more,from a gamer perspective an "awesome freaking game" is Half Life or Starcraft etc.
This one,it's only a well done rail shooter for a phone with a basic gameplay.
06-29-2009, 08:06 PM
#9
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 5,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by florbastang View Post
Why do you feel the need to trivialize my argument. Please really utilize any reading comprehension skills you may have. I don't buy fart apps or "time wasters." Let's take a quick review of the high quality and/or long-lasting $0.99 iPhone games: Uniwar, Hero of Sparta, Car Jack Streets, Peggle (not any more, though), Bionic Surfer, etc. These are all high quality games with much more longevity and replayability of this Doom game. Sure, they may not have the bling of Doom, but their overall quality is right up there with Doom.

If John Carmack doesn't want to make high quality, lower priced (as in $5 and under) games or at least ones with a gameplay length of more than 2-3 hours at $10 (again, I refer to the $1 per 1 hour rule of thumb), that's his problem. Other developers will. I'll buy from them. If you want to pay a premium for a quick thrill, that's your prerogative.
Just because he thinks your argument is crap doesn't mean he has poor reading comprehension...I find it very interesting that you say those above titled games (all of which I own and paid for...no jailbreaker) have overall quality right up there with Doom. The reason I find it interesting is that you obviously HAVEN'T PLAYED Doom. They are all good games, but they are NOT in the same league as Doom Resurrection. They may or may not be longer, but they are not the same quality. You could not know this, but yet you continue to argue about something you HAVEN'T PLAYED. It's like I say about voting, "If you don't vote, you don't have the right to complain."
06-29-2009, 08:06 PM
#10
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by florbastang View Post
How are $0.99 apps disastrous for the App market? Please explain that to me with credible evidence.

Why do we have to pay a premium price ($10) for high quality games? Other developers are pumping out high quality games for much less. Why should I buy from develops who feel like they're above the market and can charge more?
The ignorance. It ... it burns.

Devs who write top notch stuff and sell it for a buck typically didn't put much money into it, if any, just their personal time and effort, and so can afford to sell it at whatever rate they want because they don't have expenses to recoup.

Are you trying to tell me that this dev, this solitary dev, or this small team, who wrote a good game on a shoestring budget are exactly equivalent to a big team like id software, who have to pay developers, artists, musicians, sound engineers, rent on their office(s) and so on, and therefore should sell their games at the same prices? Are you seriously suggesting this? Really?

The sky must be gorgeous in your world.

[Relax with Galactic Chill] [Let me tell you a story.]
Currently working on: Music for Spirit Hunter Mineko