Mame4iOS and Piracy.

[Teknikal]

Originally Posted by handintoaster

I don't know why personal conscience makes emulators ok to toucharcade. If you don't own a legal copy of the game then it's illegal to download. Just because you don't feel bad about it doesn't mean it's not pirating. Obviously, you aren't going to get in legal trouble for it and you aren't necessarily hurting any developers but the same can be said about pirating games that are on the appstore. I don't have a problem with it but toucharcade is a little hypocritical.

Depends what's being emulated when it comes to home computers up to the Amiga most of the old studios who made them don't even exist anymore without emulators the games and some real gems and history would all be forgotten.

I also see no issue with people playing games they bought in their youth or have in a cupboard somewhere, normally people use emulators for the nostalgia value.

[JBRUU]

So I take it that it's impossible to buy these games anywhere, they're just "out there" on the Internet?

[handintoaster]

Originally Posted by Teknikal

Depends what's being emulated when it comes to home computers up to the Amiga most of the old studios who made them don't even exist anymore without emulators the games and some real gems and history would all be forgotten.

I also see no issue with people playing games they bought in their youth or have in a cupboard somewhere, normally people use emulators for the nostalgia value.

Like I said it can be morally acceptable to download emulations but it is still illegal if you don't have an original copy. Even if the studio is out of business.

[handintoaster]

If a band breaks up can I suddenly pirate all of their songs legally? If a movie studio goes out of bussiness can I suddenly pirate all of their movies legally? I would think not.

[psj3809]

Originally Posted by handintoaster

If a band breaks up can I suddenly pirate all of their songs legally? If a movie studio goes out of bussiness can I suddenly pirate all of their movies legally? I would think not.

You cant compare that to the games we play on MAME

If a band breaks up and you cant get any of their songs then i wouldnt care if i got their songs on youtube or the net.

If a band breaks up and i can buy their songs i buy them.

If i can buy these old games i will, if i cant i've no problem using MAME. I bought Bubble Bobble on iOS (Dire app to be honest), i've bought Raiden Legacy, the Metal Slug games.

For games which arent available on iOS i'll use MAME if possible.

Back in the mid 90's/late 00's you couldnt play Bomb Jack or Space Harrier on your PC, the only way to do this was to use MAME. So the games were 'gathering dust', you couldnt buy them if you wanted to. Eventually emulation got more and more popular, now companies re-release these old games and i buy them were possible.

Okay answer me this, did you ever tape music off the radio when you were younger ? Ever driven over the speed limit ? People talk round here like theyre saints.

I buy plenty of iOS games, i probably do much more for iOS companies/gaming than kids who constantly wait for games to be free or just get promo code after promo code. Again i wont lose sleep about some 30 year old game i cant even buy on the app store

[handintoaster]

I'm not saying it's wrong to do... I'm saying that it's still illegal.....

[Teknikal]

Originally Posted by handintoaster

If a band breaks up can I suddenly pirate all of their songs legally? If a movie studio goes out of bussiness can I suddenly pirate all of their movies legally? I would think not.

You used to be able to buy a bundled pack of CDs of emulated amiga games in big mainstream retail stores here in the UK (virgin megastore as one example) basicly it was a bundled emulator and cd set of every mainstream amiga game there was.

Now the company that made it (can't remember who), but there is no way they had the licenses for those games far to many and the package itself was priced at about £15 which is really nothng.

So basicly what your eluding can't happen actually happened and it was another company that did it and as far as I know profited well from it with no consequences legally. Same big stores also used to sell a PSX emulator as well if I remember right called Bleem!.

[MidianGTX]

Originally Posted by handintoaster

I'm not saying it's wrong to do... I'm saying that it's still illegal.....

There are literally hundreds upon hundreds of ridiculous and antiquated laws in existence that have yet to be updated to reflect modern society and better fit into present-day technology. Copyright holders technically have a case against a guy uploading a home video to YouTube with the TV playing in the background, but morally the guy is hardly likely to be a criminal. It's a monumental task to have these laws updated as the wording has to be such that the needs and desires of the greater good are addressed while also taking endless amounts of possible loopholes and counterclaims into consideration. Right now the popular one is patent laws, with so-called "patent trolls" becoming a huge problem and destroying budding companies that could possibly be developing useful technology that ends up never seeing the light of day.

Kinda went off on a rant there, but the gist is that breaking laws necessarily doesn't make a person bad. In some cases it's better for people to make decisions based on their own morals and ethics than to blindly follow an antique rulebook. I have a nice collection of ZX Spectrum games that I would gladly have purchased were there a reliable and official (digital) marketplace for them. I buy all of my iOS, Xbox, PC, PS3 games, but I'm also a big retro fan and it's difficult to keep that hobby alive without cutting a few corners.

[earthclaw]

If you really read the eula agreements on any of the games you purchased(digital or physical) you would realize you do not even own the games you play.. you are just purchaseing the rights to play them, so essentially your renting them. And remmember, the grey area you speak of works in there favor ,not in yours...its the way the laws are written.

[PrinceGaz]

Originally Posted by MidianGTX

Most people excuse piracy for anything they consider to be a retro game. If they can't buy it new, stealing it is okay.

...gotta be honest it is more of a moral grey area than stealing new games. Another example of ethics rarely being black and white.

There certainly is (as I like to interpret things) a rather grey area around the whole legality of emulating older games, and my own interpretation of the law amounts pretty much to:-

a) If you have bought the rights to play the game, you can play it on any device you own, even if that involves emulation. 100% legal in my court.

b) If the copyright holder has given permission for the game to be distributed and used freely, again always 100% legal regardless of emulator use.

c) If the copyright holder has not allowed the game to be purchased for use in what is consider a satisfactory way for a reasonable length of time (let's say 10 years) then provided nobody else unduly profits from your playing it (advertising revenue from download site to cover their bandwidth costs is permissible), then whilst not entirely legal, it is still acceptable.

d) If none of the above conditions apply, then the legally recognised (not in all countries) "24-hour rule" still allows a game to be downloaded and played for up to a maximum of 24 hours from when it is downloaded, after which you should either purchase the right to use it, or delete it, or whatever you feel is acceptable.

I am not saying I personally do any of the above (especially (c) or (d) parts) which might not be completely legal where I live, only that it is how I personally feel about copyright and older games.