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  #1  
Old 01-09-2014, 03:24 AM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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Default Magic in the Woods - mind challenging puzzle game

Are you the true genius who can solve all the 60 puzzles?


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The initial levels are easy, but then they get harder and the final ones are really hardcore.

http://magicwoodsgame.com














Last edited by werewolf; 01-10-2014 at 03:31 PM..
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2014, 05:00 PM
Mary2124 Mary2124 is offline
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It's a decent puzzler. I wish the controls were a little better. I found myself canceling my moves a lot because he was taking a path I didn't want him to take. I liked the button that's enabled in level 9 to help somewhat with that issue. It took me awhile to figure out the girl and boy can't walk past each other when the path is narrow. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why she wasn't pushing the third stone over. It's got good potential.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2014, 03:51 AM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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Default Controls

Hi Mary, thanks for the feedback. The problem with different paths is caused by the fact that controlling Fred is based on selecting the target spot you want him to walk to.
If it is too faraway, then yes, there are different options and he might use different path. The solution is to cut long paths into shorter ones, when necessary. Then you can control him precisely.

Further, as you mention, there is a red / green button which says whether Fred can or cannot touch stones and balloons during his walk. We think using these options it is possible to control him very well. It is more efficient then telling him each step or trying to specify the full path - with one touch he can go rather faraway.

However, we'll take the feedback from players seriously into account and will consider some further optimizations in this area.
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:24 AM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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This is some very bold claim to make about a puzzle that "no one in the world" except the creator has solved some of the levels.

I am tempted to try but have a few question:

How is the above claim substantiated? Do you track the players' solutions? By its nature, the level has to have a solution. It is just a matter of finding it.

Is there MORE THAN ONE WAY to solve a level? Or is each level solvable ONLY with a single method?

Are the moves in the levels entirely reversible? That is, is it possible to reach a dead-end after some move so that it is not possible to reverse a "losing" position?

Are all of the levels manually generated, as opposite to procedurally generated?

How much of an action or timed component is involved in the solution? Do certain moves need to be timed precisely?


Quote:
Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
Are you the true genius who can solve all the 60 puzzles? The initial levels are easy, but no one in the world has solved some of the hardest ones yet ;-)
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2014, 04:00 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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Hi, thanks for such good questions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
This is some very bold claim to make about a puzzle that "no one in the world" except the creator has solved some of the levels.

I am tempted to try but have a few questions:

How is the above claim substantiated? Do you track the players' solutions? By its nature, the level has to have a solution. It is just a matter of finding it.
You are right, it sounds a bit strange, I changed the formulation. The game is brand new. I had some very clever people as testers. We were fine tuning the hardest levels and none of these testers solved the final versions of some of them. That does not mean you cannot solve them

I do not track the solutions automatically, but it is possible to send me a log from within the game via email and then I can look what the solution was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
Is there MORE THAN ONE WAY to solve a level? Or is each level solvable ONLY with a single method?
It is like in Chess puzzles. A good puzzle has just one (main) solution. So the hard levels have the main idea and you have to find it. There are variations of moves how you can achieve it, but you have to discover this idea. If there is an easier solution, then this is a gap in the level. It might happen. However, we fine tuned the levels a lot.

That does not mean that especially in easier levels, there might not be different paths to the goal. And even if there is one main solution, there are (by the nature of the game and its rules) different "sub-paths" how to achieve it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
Are the moves in the levels entirely reversible? That is, is it possible to reach a dead-end after some move so that it is not possible to reverse a "losing" position?
No, the moves are not reversible and there are dead ends. For example, if your important stone falls into a hole, there might not be a way to get it back.

Some such situations are detected by the program (e.g. if a stone eater eats your important stone), but it is not always possible. You can restart the level manually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
Are all of the levels manually generated, as opposite to procedurally generated?
They are manually created. Each level has some main idea, which is hidden a bit and you have to find it. I think that some of the levels are really interesting and there is some beauty in their solution At least, I was excited when creating them and some of the testers were excited when they found the solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
How much of an action or timed component is involved in the solution? Do certain moves need to be timed precisely?
Yes, sometimes you need to synchronize your moves with moves of other characters or so. I would say that this is roughly about 10% of the solution (and it is not always there). Mainly, it's about finding the solution. It's much more a logical than an action game.

I'll be glad if you try the game and let me know your thoughts.

Last edited by werewolf; 01-10-2014 at 04:06 PM..
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2014, 06:12 PM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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Great to hear from the game's creator! Thank you for the clear answers.

Just curious, of the 60 puzzles in the game, how many of them were ones that the testers COULD NOT solve? For these levels, how many moves are involved in the solution?

I see there is a "timer" at the corner of the screenshots. Are these levels timed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
Hi, thanks for such good questions!



You are right, it sounds a bit strange, I changed the formulation. The game is brand new. I had some very clever people as testers. We were fine tuning the hardest levels and none of these testers solved the final versions of some of them. That does not mean you cannot solve them

I do not track the solutions automatically, but it is possible to send me a log from within the game via email and then I can look what the solution was.



It is like in Chess puzzles. A good puzzle has just one (main) solution. So the hard levels have the main idea and you have to find it. There are variations of moves how you can achieve it, but you have to discover this idea. If there is an easier solution, then this is a gap in the level. It might happen. However, we fine tuned the levels a lot.

That does not mean that especially in easier levels, there might not be different paths to the goal. And even if there is one main solution, there are (by the nature of the game and its rules) different "sub-paths" how to achieve it.



No, the moves are not reversible and there are dead ends. For example, if your important stone falls into a hole, there might not be a way to get it back.

Some such situations are detected by the program (e.g. if a stone eater eats your important stone), but it is not always possible. You can restart the level manually.



They are manually created. Each level has some main idea, which is hidden a bit and you have to find it. I think that some of the levels are really interesting and there is some beauty in their solution At least, I was excited when creating them and some of the testers were excited when they found the solution.



Yes, sometimes you need to synchronize your moves with moves of other characters or so. I would say that this is roughly about 10% of the solution (and it is not always there). Mainly, it's about finding the solution. It's much more a logical than an action game.

I'll be glad if you try the game and let me know your thoughts.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2014, 07:00 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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You are welcome

I think that about 5 levels have not been solved by the testers. However, this applies to the final versions of these levels. There was a lot of fine tuning and some very interesting alternative solutions were found in these levels until they were fixed and finalized.

The game is not completely hardcore. First 15 levels can be done almost by everyone, although even they require real thinking. Then it gets a bit harder, but is still manageable.

The first "genius test" is level 47. It is the first really tough one (solved just by one tester so far). And some of the final 5 ones are rather hardcore

The timer just counts the number of your steps. There is no time limit. Will be used for game center purposes in the future (not implemented yet). Currently, it only tells you locally when you solve the level faster than before.

The number of steps for the hard levels is not significantly different than for easier larger ones. Something like few hundreds (e.g. 300 - 400, not sure). It doesn't mean you do 300 - 400 decisions. You tap on a spot and Fred walks there. If the spot is 10 steps faraway, this one move counts as 10 steps on the counter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
Great to hear from the game's creator! Thank you for the clear answers.

Just curious, of the 60 puzzles in the game, how many of them were ones that the testers COULD NOT solve? For these levels, how many moves are involved in the solution?

I see there is a "timer" at the corner of the screenshots. Are these levels timed?
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2014, 07:16 PM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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werewolf,

There was a game released long ago called Caveman's Quest (the developer is EpiForce Entertainment). Unsure if you are aware of this game. If so, is your game similar to that? It was a game I greatly enjoyed (aside from the twitchy controls), in large part because the solutions to many levels were extremely clever. A hidden gem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
You are welcome

I think that about 5 levels have not been solved by the testers. However, this applies to the final versions of these levels. There was a lot of fine tuning and some very interesting alternative solutions were found in these levels until they were fixed and finalized.

The game is not completely hardcore. First 15 levels can be done almost by everyone, although even they require real thinking. Then it gets a bit harder, but is still manageable.

The first "genius test" is level 47. It is the first really tough one (solved just by one tester so far). And some of the final 5 ones are rather hardcore

The timer just counts the number of your steps. There is no time limit. Will be used for game center purposes in the future (not implemented yet). Currently, it only tells you locally when you solve the level faster than before.

The number of steps for the hard levels is not significantly different than for easier larger ones. Something like few hundreds (e.g. 300 - 400, not sure). It doesn't mean you do 300 - 400 decisions. You tap on a spot and Fred walks there. If the spot is 10 steps faraway, this one move counts as 10 steps on the counter.

Last edited by y2kmp3; 01-10-2014 at 07:19 PM..
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2014, 07:29 PM
werewolf werewolf is offline
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No, I don't know this game. Looks interesting. Will try it ... Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kmp3 View Post
werewolf,

There was a game released long ago called Caveman's Quest (the developer is EpiForce Entertainment). Unsure if you are aware of this game. If so, is your game similar to that? It was a game I greatly enjoyed (aside from the twitchy controls), in large part because the solutions to many levels were extremely clever. A hidden gem.
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2014, 08:19 AM
y2kmp3 y2kmp3 is offline
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I have started playing this game and am pleasantly surprised by HOW TRULY CLEVER the puzzles are in this game. A hidden gem indeed (pun intended).

The gist is that do not be swayed by the fable like facade of the game's art style, this is a truly hardcore logic puzzle platformer that has some very unique mechanics and very ingenious take of the Sokoban genre.

What appeals to me the most about this game is the puzzle design. For almost all of the levels, when you first look at the level, the goal seems impossible. With time, however, you begin to see a trick move that you enable to reach the goal. Not only that, this game is not the typical "one trick" pony that reuses the same mechanics over and over again. Time after time, I was surprised to discover some very clever moves that I had not considered previously.

Compared to other games, I would put the ingenuity of this game easily up to the level of Trainyard and Caveman's Quest HD.

My only minor gripe is that twitchy tap control. It is somewhat imprecise and can cause you to misdirect your path. However, the game has a save state which you can use to revert quickly to your last position (though it does not have an undo button).

Easily recommendation for an instant buy for any puzzle fan!
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