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  #1  
Old 01-30-2014, 01:49 PM
Aventador Aventador is offline
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Default Devaluating and destroying old classics

This got me worried lately as we've all seen what has been done with Tales of Phantasia and Dungeon Keeper ( and probably some other ones that don't come to my mind at the moment ).
Old classics being ripped apart and turned into IAP sinkholes in search of whales nostalgic and desperate enough to eat out of their hands.
Those games must be free at all cost to bring in more audience and active consumers, but that comes with a steep price of totally ruined gameplay balance to accustom IAP.Game like this usually doesn't represent or hold any value of classic it once was, furthermore it becomes something disgusting as someone who is familiar with game progresses further into it and sees all the IAP horror.
My question would be :
Why didn't they just released a direct/remastered port and have a huge sale numbers for first month and at least some steady sales during next years , instead of this IAP abomination which will get so many negative reviews and fade into endless sea of other games ?
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2014, 02:13 PM
one.sixty.four one.sixty.four is offline
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It's to target the casual gaming audience. On average, They are more willing to spend money on IAP then on a game.
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2014, 03:06 PM
Jorlen Jorlen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one.sixty.four View Post
It's to target the casual gaming audience. On average, They are more willing to spend money on IAP then on a game.
And it works.

My brother-in-law recently started playing a game, claiming he was happy to have gotten it for free. "I'm not paying for these, no way".

Next thing you know, he tells me he spent $100 on IAP in a month's time on that very same game. One of those stupid competitive games with leaderboards. I.e. build your bases, conquer other people, etc. And of course they sell IAP to speed up your progression. Bollocks. Do people not see through this? They get hooked, and want to win, so they pay to win. And it just goes downhill from there. Almost like gambling.

The reason companies are doing this, is because it's working for the MAJORITY. The minority, which is most of us I'm guessing, who prefer to pay for quality and won't touch this IAP JUNK, are not the ones generating them tons of cash, sadly.

Luckily there are still exceptions, but for every quality PAID game I find, there are a dozen or more IAP garbage games on the market. I'm all for paying extra IAP for content, but I avoid IAP where you can guy gems, or gold, or whatnot. It's an insult to gaming in my book and ruins the experience before I even start.

Last edited by Jorlen; 01-30-2014 at 03:10 PM..
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  #4  
Old 01-30-2014, 03:09 PM
Connector Connector is offline
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I think the trend for now is freemiums, devs now seem to think freemiums with paywalls and inapps are best to make money. And who's to blame them. But every game can't be freemium or else people will just stop playing ios games. I think it is just a trend.
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2014, 04:02 PM
Based Xatu Based Xatu is offline
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If console and pc gaming degrades into this, I say we riot.

Anyway cell phone gaming isn't important, you can make a lot of money from it of you play your cards right, but it's mostly a bust. Games that come out are forgotten within a month most of the time.

Cell phones main functions have nothing to do with gaming. That's a side feature - so games won't matter that much, and even consumers are reluctant to spend a large amount of money at one time on a cell phone. It feels like sometimes we expect to much from cell phone and tablet gaming.
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2014, 04:11 PM
undeadcow undeadcow is offline
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As much as I appreciate the foundation video gaming is built on, the thing that really devalues and destroys old "classics" is time. No matter how much I want to, I will never be able to relive the glee of purchasing a SNES cartridge of Final Fantasy VI and staying up all night to play it for a week straight because school can wait anyway again. I would like to say Dungeon Keeper will always be a timeless shining gem, but that's not true. Dungeon Keeper was revolutionary, but now it's more commonplace and getting dated. Video game publishers that shoehorn IAP into these games or fiddle with the content to be more marketable are not destroying the game - but taking advantage of our faulty sense that we can reclaim that nostalgia. What we need is modern standard bearers to identify our own current generation in gaming untainted by twisted sentiment but of pure immediate experience.

Just trying to re-release a classic even in it's virgin form is a bit destructive, because no matter what... you can't re-live that experience like you did back then. Homages are fun, but I disagree if the idea is you can just 100% transplant games from one era to another and one format to another without some loss.

Last edited by undeadcow; 01-30-2014 at 04:25 PM..
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2014, 05:18 AM
Isilel Isilel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undeadcow View Post
Just trying to re-release a classic even in it's virgin form is a bit destructive, because no matter what... you can't re-live that experience like you did back then. Homages are fun, but I disagree if the idea is you can just 100% transplant games from one era to another and one format to another without some loss.
Well, as somebody who has been playing a lot of old games for the first time thanks to iOS and Steam, I beg to differ. Monkey Islands, Broken Swords, Beneath a Steel Sky, Final Fantasy III, Shining Force, Lufia II (on an emulator), Max Payne (Steam), Beyond Good and Evil (Steam), etc. were all great for me, who had zero nostalgia because I never experienced them back then.
Great gameplay is great gameplay.

That's also one of the reasons why Nintendo and Sony and developers who published on their platforms have been endlessly porting and remaking some of their most popular classics - quite successfully, I might add.

So yea, attempts to turn old games into freemium titles are an abomination, which hopefully flops hard.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2014, 05:47 AM
GGLV GGLV is offline
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I think it's rather the fact that the around 10-50% of the App Store users who download these type of games are mostly kids who really have no idea what a good game is like. Thanks to generic shooters like Call of Duty and now these freemium IAP pieces of junk, the next generation are inclined to think that these games are normal, and that it is perfectly alright to be spending hundreds of dollars on a piece of junk.

We need to start seeing that indie games are given more of the spotlight, and introduce measures to 'censor' these IAP riddled games from a future generation of gamers.
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2014, 09:50 AM
psj3809 psj3809 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undeadcow View Post
As much as I appreciate the foundation video gaming is built on, the thing that really devalues and destroys old "classics" is time. No matter how much I want to, I will never be able to relive the glee of purchasing a SNES cartridge of Final Fantasy VI and staying up all night to play it for a week straight because school can wait anyway again. I would like to say Dungeon Keeper will always be a timeless shining gem, but that's not true. Dungeon Keeper was revolutionary, but now it's more commonplace and getting dated. Video game publishers that shoehorn IAP into these games or fiddle with the content to be more marketable are not destroying the game - but taking advantage of our faulty sense that we can reclaim that nostalgia. What we need is modern standard bearers to identify our own current generation in gaming untainted by twisted sentiment but of pure immediate experience.

Just trying to re-release a classic even in it's virgin form is a bit destructive, because no matter what... you can't re-live that experience like you did back then. Homages are fun, but I disagree if the idea is you can just 100% transplant games from one era to another and one format to another without some loss.
Dont agree with that. Its like saying people shouldnt watch old films anymore etc. Films/music/games to me mature well with age. Now i'm older i've still got those nostalgic feelings with these games/films etc but now i tend to also appreciate how they were created more. Eg Star Wars, breathtaking how great that film is 36 years later. 8 bit games, its amazing how they pushed the machine to get out a game in just 48k.

A lot of games its great to come back to, yeah i had them in the 80's and played them tons, then didnt play them for years, then due to emulators i gave them a go again. To me the magic is still there, having the ability to have 200 Speccy games on me at all times on an app is amazing.

Graphics age, sound in games age, but the playability doesnt age. SOOO many games out now are just the same but with better graphics/music and cost a lot more. The basic principles 'go from point a to point b' are the same.

Look how many people dislike remakes of old classic films ? Its the same for games, the new Dungeon Keeper has tons of IAP, i'm staying away from that. The old classic i might be able to download from some website (which someone put in the DK thread) but i cant play that on my iphone and thats one key thing to me. Having these classics such as Duke/Sonic and others on my phone to play is great.

I tend to also take my time and now try and beat these old classics as they have save points etc.

Look at Gridlee (MAME) and how popular that is. People love playing the all time classics, love watching classic movies and listening to music they grew up with etc.

I'm not entirely trying to recreate 1984 by playing Manic Miner, but its still exciting having that old classic on my phone 30 years later so i can play it whenever you want.
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2014, 10:19 AM
undeadcow undeadcow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isilel View Post
Well, as somebody who has been playing a lot of old games for the first time thanks to iOS and Steam... Great gameplay is great gameplay...
I don't disagree. I just got back into PC gaming so there's a whole decade of milestones I missed out on and am enjoying. Great games are great games; but if imagine how much greater that game was at it's inception on native release. Contra is still a lot of fun to play; in the 1980s it was a mind blowing obsession but now it's a fun time waster repeatedly cloned, now overly familiar. Final Fantasy 1 was my all time favorite game as a kid, but now it's a weaker entry in the early FF canon so hard to appreciate as I did in it's glory days. Consider that strong video games are emulated and built upon cannibalized to become a foundation for future games in the process becoming dimmer in some cases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psj3809 View Post
...Graphics age, sound in games age, but the playability doesnt age. SOOO many games out now are just the same but with better graphics/music and cost a lot more...
As a fan of old movies and old games, I agree. However, I do think some of the experience is relative to the immediate cultural awareness. For example, I love Bunuel's classic film Milky Way (as well as his Search for Truth trilogy) but there's so many religious and culture references specific to 1960s era timeframe I don't think I can ever appreciate it in some optimal way without having been there then. I'd hesitate to recommend Milky Way to general audiences because of how specific it sometimes feels despite being amazing. It's a great movie now, but less accessible and immediate than for earlier generations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psj3809 View Post
I'm not entirely trying to recreate 1984 by playing Manic Miner, but its still exciting having that old classic on my phone 30 years later so i can play it whenever you want.
Myself included, I love having quality older games available on their own merits (nostalgia aside) but I can't help wondering if the original poster is frustrated not just by changes to older games (IAP, graphic redesign, control alterations, balance tweaks, etc) but also because unobtainable nostalgia or cultural changes bar immersion.

This is an interesting discussion, thanks for the replies.
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