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Old 02-20-2014, 07:11 PM
Pete Martell Pete Martell is offline
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Default Controller support? no thanks!

Not sure how it is in other countries like USA or whatever, but in Europe the apple stores let you try accessories for up to 2 weeks before having to buy them.

So I tested both moga and logi for a week now as well as the BT one.

As a gamer since the 80's having played a ton I drank the controller kool-aid bottom up.

But... Boy were my expectations broken, not just about these 3 controllers but about controllers period.

I tested a shit ton of titles and to my surprise A, only GTA:SA saw any benefit, platformers etc if done right didn't benefit one bit nor anything else I tried, case in point something like oceanhorn sega allstar racing Ava's quest bastion etc all played better without controller and I can play just as well and for as long as on a console or PC. Sonic CD and similar turned out to even make things worse. Bad optimization perhaps.

Every instance of game I tried that had bad controls, expecting the game pad to swoop in and make it good all of the sudden, failed. Nothing bad became good thanks to the support of these peripherals. More like a realization and coming to terms that shit will stay shit.

The more I tested in the end my conclusion is this, only one genre benefits from having controller support that is the FPS genre with dual sticks, one for movement and one for camera.

I was hoping that would add to something like deus x but it didn't have support and guess what, I play it fine without after some practice anyway and as long as I face AI I had no issues with it.

So after all the hype, expectations (not even sure what I expected any longer,) I played GTA:SA for an hour or 2.

Here issues popped up, controls weren't perfect but I did prefer over on-screen controls. Battery runs out fast and the added batteries, both I tested, yielded only another 30-40% charge, tops and then of course I would have to charge the pad by itself and the phone when needed to also having it plugged don't work.

Now you could say, jailbreak it or BT (with noticeable input lag,) craft a makeshift pad or phone stand then... Run your phone plugged all the time and have fun.

But all I get, all I see is doing that for GTA:SA which I might add overheats my iPhone 5S nicely, what else is there?

Anyhow, after all the expectations and waiting for this "thing" that was gonna turn my iPhone into a ... 3DS? That thing is worse with a worse game library so what was I expecting, a portable playstation???

Then I remembered, not even GTA china town wars was really playable on a DS and I never seen a successful fps on a PS or Nintendo handheld, that has always been exclusively for consoles and PC, besides I know I am not the only one who bought GTA for an old PS and regretted it because the controls sucked and those had buttons and stick.

I don't know anymore, because what I found instead was a greater enjoyment and love for good games with proper support for the iPhones touchscreen and I realized my biggest gripe all along with the thing was never a lack for controller support or arguably better controllers, even if they were more than adequate, a better made dual shock won't make the difference, I tested it, No-

It is battery life.

So instead of getting what I thought was gonna be making my iPhone my best gaming machine today, I bought a battery casing with a nice form factor and shock resistance etc.

With the thing extending my iPhones battery by more than twice the charge, same price might I add as the controllers, I finally got what I wanted even if it wasn't what I was looking for.

Basically, I do not see myself ever playing my iOS devices with buttons or sticks nor do I think it is needed anymore.

Downside is no GTA:SA on my phone and I can live with that, got it refunded too after the heating issues.

Now with the battery pack I play more than ever before. More juice is my new deal for making iPhone gaming better.

So, sorry for the long post, anyone else with similar or different views on iOS gaming and controller support?

Last edited by Pete Martell; 02-20-2014 at 07:23 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2014, 07:26 PM
Jorlen Jorlen is offline
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I suppose it depends what your expectations are.

Mine, for my ipad, would be to have controller support in some games and not all, and I expect it to work flawlessly when support is offered. Is this the case? Not sure.

My issue though, is that there isn't any IOS controller out there really compelling me to buy it. They are all poor, and expensive.

I thought about jailbreaking so I can use my PS3 controller that is sitting there collecting dust; I hear great things about this since the controller is actually high quality and there's a jailbreak related app that allows it to work for MFI stuff.
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2014, 07:37 PM
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Eli Eli is offline
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Seems premature to judge iOS controllers based on three devices which were basically rushed to market on games that had controller support added without a controller to test it on, but, hey, internet.
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:45 PM
Pete Martell Pete Martell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorlen View Post
I suppose it depends what your expectations are.

Mine, for my ipad, would be to have controller support in some games and not all, and I expect it to work flawlessly when support is offered. Is this the case? Not sure.

My issue though, is that there isn't any IOS controller out there really compelling me to buy it. They are all poor, and expensive.

I thought about jailbreaking so I can use my PS3 controller that is sitting there collecting dust; I hear great things about this since the controller is actually high quality and there's a jailbreak related app that allows it to work for MFI stuff.
The BT was offered to me for 50 dollars after 1 minute of haggling bartering. You should try it if the price is the issue. Ergonomics were more than fine but input lag was present.

I tried the JB by a friend but other than a better build controller etc it wasn't much better or worth it in my opinion, other than price I suppose which would be real cheap secondhand.

iPad at least I can see a reason for having it but my biggest issue on my iPad 4 was battery, on iPhone 5s plugged I can play xcom until I pass out but on the iPad even plugged it my battery would die in what felt like 2 hours maybe3 or whatever.

Not tested the iPad air but the iPads 4 battery life got to me so bad I sold it late last year.

Not just because of gaming but other apps and usage. My iPad spend more time recharging than getting used and no, I didn't have a faulty one if asking.

Not sure if there are accessories to to deal with that though?

I would like an Apple TV with game pad support but then we are talking consoles.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2014, 08:03 PM
Pete Martell Pete Martell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli View Post
Seems premature to judge iOS controllers based on three devices which were basically rushed to market on games that had controller support added without a controller to test it on, but, hey, internet.
My name isn't internet, thank you and I tested it quite a bit even JB'. Also my thread title isn't meant to be inflammatory if it came across as such. Hope my OP was on point.

Premature perhaps you are right-

but even in a best case scenario based on this experience and trying to imagine that "good" implementation, I now do believe there is no such thing to be had. I mean sonic must be better with a controller right? I thought so and nope I was wrong, so maybe it is SEGA's fault? I thought so, until I played Ava's Quest realizing it would never need controller support.

My argument is that a game with good touchscreen/controller support is good without and one lacking is bad no matter what.

Again after all is said and done only fps or 3rd person like GTA had a potential benefit to me.

So best case scenario we can play fps games on the go, but by looking at other handhelds and remembering my DS and PS days, likely not gonna happen. What fps or similar is selling PS Vita?

Hey maybe I'll be wrong, I said the same you did until testing it all for more than a week now.

I bet people will still be waiting for that great controller in a year from now and not realize it might never come, perhaps should never come.

We'll see though, at least I don't have to wait any longer.

Last edited by Pete Martell; 02-20-2014 at 08:24 PM..
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2014, 09:24 PM
kmacleod kmacleod is offline
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I disagree, obviously.

This is Apple making a serious commitment to real gaming. It's a sign for what the future holds, that gaming is an area worth making a real effort in.

The first controllers were rushed to market in time for the holidays (and in one case, missed that deadline) - they aren't great. But they also aren't as bad as some people say.

Many games are improved with the controllers, not just GTA. Jet Set Radio, Sonic, Tomb Raider, Oceanhorn, Joe Danger, Mikey Hooks, Final Fantasy 3, Shadow Blade, Spectre, Terraria - I'm not even scratching the surface here, but there are enough games in this sentence to keep you busy for months. And they all play significantly better with a controller.

I think this segment of Apple's gaming strategy is going to be incredibly important going forwards. It's about the future, and the possibilities this opens up for Apple to enter new markets.

Last edited by kmacleod; 02-20-2014 at 09:31 PM..
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2014, 09:41 PM
Pete Martell Pete Martell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacleod View Post
I disagree, obviously.

This is Apple making a serious commitment to real gaming. It's a sign for what the future holds, that gaming is an area worth making a real effort in.

The first controllers were rushed to market in time for the holidays (and in one case, missed that deadline) - they aren't great. But they also aren't as bad as some people say.

Many games are improved with the controllers, not just GTA. Jet Set Radio, Sonic, Tomb Raider, Oceanhorn, Joe Danger, Mikey Hooks, Final Fantasy 3, Shadow Blade, Spectre, Terraria - I'm not even scratching the surface here, but there are enough games in this sentence to keep you busy for months. And they all play significantly better with a controller.

I think this segment of Apple's gaming strategy is going to be incredibly important going forwards. It's about the future, and the possibilities this opens up for Apple to enter new markets.
I didn't get any improvement on sonic or oceanhorn etc (last one felt even worse as do some others,) didn't try terraria and junk jack doesn't have it so maybe, I agree on GTA however and some other titles you mentioned I have never played.

What I do agree with you on is the importance of gaming for Apple moving forward, absolutely agree with you on that and if Apple TV going forward will also work as a games console well then, controller support is very important for all the titles you mentioned and going forward.

But for the iPhone, my mind was changed and I no longer care for using any form of game pad with it.

I do think apple will go stronger into games and while I phrase my thread title as "no thanks" I do however not mind controller support on phones, of course hoping devs will keep making sure that the touch screen controls work perfectly and not get lazy.

Maybe I am in the minority on this one? But I doubt I will ever change my mind on this. Love my battery case however especially with titles like KOTOR, xcom and bastion etc.

Last edited by Pete Martell; 02-20-2014 at 09:45 PM..
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2014, 09:49 PM
kmacleod kmacleod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Martell View Post
I didn't get any improvement on sonic or oceanhorn etc (last one felt even worse as do some others,) didn't try terraria and junk jack doesn't have it so maybe, I agree on GTA however and some other titles you mentioned I have never played.

What I do agree with you on is the importance of gaming for Apple moving forward, absolutely agree with you on that and if Apple TV going forward will also work as a games console well then, controller support is very important for all the titles you mentioned and going forward.

But for the iPhone, my mind was changed and I no longer care for using any form of game pad with it.

I do think apple will go stronger into games and while I phrase my thread title as "no thanks" I do however not mind controller support on phones, of course hoping devs will keep making sure that the touch screen controls work perfectly and not get lazy.
You have a right to your own opinion about it, of course. Not saying you're wrong for feeling the way you do, just saying I strongly disagree with you. Personally, my iPhone rarely leaves the controller case anymore.

Touch screen gaming is great for many different games across many different genres. But not all of them. FPS games are basically unplayable without serious compromises such as auto fire. Ports like GTA or Jet Set Radio are made drastically more difficult than they should be.

I wouldn't worry about developers slacking on touch-screen support, at least not for a long time. Apple requires all games with controller support to also fully support the touch screen.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:18 PM
Pete Martell Pete Martell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacleod View Post
You have a right to your own opinion about it, of course. Not saying you're wrong for feeling the way you do, just saying I strongly disagree with you. Personally, my iPhone rarely leaves the controller case anymore.

Touch screen gaming is great for many different games across many different genres. But not all of them. FPS games are basically unplayable without serious compromises such as auto fire. Ports like GTA or Jet Set Radio are made drastically more difficult than they should be.

I wouldn't worry about developers slacking on touch-screen support, at least not for a long time. Apple requires all games with controller support to also fully support the touch screen.
I'll give you GTA and then agree to disagree.

But not speaking about controllers, how do you feel about battery life and how do you deal with it? The 2 controllers extra battery turned out to be a bit pathetic in my experience.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:27 PM
kmacleod kmacleod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Martell View Post
I'll give you GTA and then agree to disagree.

But not speaking about controllers, how do you feel about battery life and how do you deal with it? The 2 controllers extra battery turned out to be a bit pathetic in my experience.
I've never had any issues with battery life on my iPhone, so adding a controller with a battery pack only helps more

Seriously, if I'm at home, there's an outlet. If I'm in the car, there's an outlet. I charge my iPhone enough throughout the day that it never even hits the red zone.

Hardcore gaming will kill your battery though, which is why it's nice that the controllers come with a little more juice.

...And why it is absolutely inexcusable that the Moga doesn't charge while connected to an iPhone, but then we're back to the whole "rushed version 1 products" thing
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