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Old 03-28-2014, 03:08 PM
Nobunaga Nobunaga is offline
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Default Gdc - drm & dbd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli View Post
Yep, an overwhelming majority of the devs we talked to at GDC are moving to online only and switching to more of a "games as a service" model because anything with a price tag associated with it is still seeing 90%+ piracy rates on a good day. It sucks if you're a legit user on a device with no connectivity, but the fact of the matter is pirates are winning and developers either need to try to fight back or give up on the platform all together.
Well, according to Eli, DRM is iPhone gaming's last hope.
Rather than derailing another thread with comments about the games persistent internet connection requirement, I figured I'd start this thread.
My personal belief is that most digital rights/restrictions management are; that the products using them are "defective by design (DBD)". I will not buy into them. The fact that the second a publisher decides to stop supporting the game I've bought, I can no longer use it is more than enough reason for me not to buy/rent their product.
If things do end up going to heavily in the direction it would seem they might be, I will be giving up on the iPhone as a viable method of playing games.

Last edited by Nobunaga; 03-28-2014 at 03:48 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-28-2014, 04:23 PM
indalico indalico is offline
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I'd think it would be easier to have built in ways of detect illegal apps. I don't know how easy this would be to implement, but that should be better than forcing an always-online game for a single person game.

I don't like DRM, and besides it's been beaten with illegal software anyway.

Edit: reminds me of this http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg

Last edited by indalico; 03-28-2014 at 04:26 PM..
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  #3  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:22 PM
Nobunaga Nobunaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indalico View Post
I'd think it would be easier to have built in ways of detect illegal apps. I don't know how easy this would be to implement, but that should be better than forcing an always-online game for a single person game.

I don't like DRM, and besides it's been beaten with illegal software anyway.

Edit: reminds me of this http://i.imgur.com/GxzeV.jpg
That's how I see it. Illegal software or modification of source files will eventually beat any forms of copy protection. Persistent internet connection requirements have work arounds on jailbroken software already. In the end, like most DRM it really only hurts the paying customers. Like the image you linked shows with DVD's. How many hackers are there on online first person shooters? Including on iPhone.
I don't pirate software. I also don't pay for software that, in the effort to slow down pirating, interfere with my enjoyment of that software.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:25 PM
Connector Connector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli View Post
Yep, an overwhelming majority of the devs we talked to at GDC are moving to online only and switching to more of a "games as a service" model because anything with a price tag associated with it is still seeing 90%+ piracy rates on a good day. It sucks if you're a legit user on a device with no connectivity, but the fact of the matter is pirates are winning and developers either need to try to fight back or give up on the platform all together.
Well, I for one, already asked this question and got a vague answer from rip already, but I would like to ask Eli himself the same question.

Why can't we see ios 7.1 only as a solution to jailbreaking and pirating rather than always online?

Always online is a terrible solution to prevent pirating. Many users have limited cellular plans in the US, many with less than 300 mb per month allocated for cellular bandwidth. Also, many ipad owners have wifi only, and many play offline. And what about people with itouches out there that play primarily offline?

I have had games run up 200mb in one sitting before! If one was on a 300 mb phone plan, then they would get charged a $10 overage fee for playing one online only game.

Sure there are some online only games that don't use much bandwidth, but if many do, many will abuse it streaming video ads, monitoring what you do or maybe even where you are gps wise, and other negative things other than cellular bandwidth issues.

Iphones and ipads are meant to be portable, I don't think online only is a cure for pirating.

So I start off asking Eli, why can't developers go ios 7.1 only? Why is always online such a good thing for ios gaming?
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:11 PM
Nobunaga Nobunaga is offline
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I agree, Connector. I'd really like to hear how this is the cure. How other options more favourable to customers don't work, etc. really this should be the last thing companies try.
I'd like to hear from Gameloft Ryan as well.
I'd also like to see where this 90% piracy number comes from. And if that's the case how does chair/epic state that Infinity Blade is the game that has had the best return on investment of any they've made and how Rovio got so big selling games. I know they've gone free to play now. Initially they made the company on charging money for games without any form of DRM.
How are we at the point where screwing over paying customers is the only way to keep iPhone gaming afloat?
I own and have owned far too many Apple products. I don't play games on my Phone. I use it as a phone. Sometimes a GPS. I usually play games on my touch 5th gen (with the exception of iPad only games). I like to play on planes. In locations away from home where I don't have wifi. It's a serious inconvenience to have to be online at all times to me.
There would have to be a very serious justification for me to even consider this form of DRM.

Last edited by Nobunaga; 03-28-2014 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:43 AM
Nobunaga Nobunaga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPT5 View Post
Is piracy really that rampant in iOS devices? I had no idea. I thought you can only get illegal apps through jailbreaking your device. And I don't think more than 50% of all the Apple devices are jailbroken. So where is all those numbers coming from?
It would seem the numbers vary by region. China has been reported as having numbers as high as 30% + and reported to be in decline. Some people have said that the overall that they see is as low as .5%.
From a quick search it appears to be no more than 10%. Even if all of those people download (pirated) every app I doubt the numbers would be as high as Eli suggested. Even if they were, there is the argument that a small percentage of that is lost revenue. That's a different debate though, I guess.
Even with all that considered, should the AppStore move too far in the direction of restrictive DRM, will developers lose more in sales than they perceive they do to piracy?
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2014, 02:41 AM
Topherunhinged Topherunhinged is offline
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If games go on-line only, that's when I'll switch to piracy. DRM is already idiotic, on-line requirements are beyond idiotic, and anyone pushing that won't see a cent from me.

...as to how we got here, over-production and good old pathetic human nature. The games industry has a terrible business model and, for those thinking it, kickstarter doesn't help.

Cut costs, improve graphics, cut physical assets, improve graphics, cut design plans, improve graphics, cut content, improve graphics, hire 200+ people to make a 7hr game, improve graphics, need to sell 500 million copies just to break even, didn't sell 500 million copies, didn't break even, improve graphics, try to sell 600 million copies to compensate, better broaden the audience, broaden the audience, broaden the audience, improve the graphics, now every man, woman and child has to buy a copy just to break even, improve the graphics. AAA.

Business men run the industry and all they want is a year-end bonus.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:50 PM
Nobunaga Nobunaga is offline
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http://toucharcade.com/2014/03/31/86...ames-with-ads/

A crazy article from the front page.
I suppose if that's true, it might be the beginning of the end for my Personal iPhone gaming.
Maybe piracy is pushing this change to free and always connected games, maybe it's more profitable. I doubt it'll be seen as a good thing by "gamers".
Some of my favourite genres are pretty much a niche market and without a wide market, adverts and freemium falls flat. I'm sure there'll always be a place for good DRM free "premium" games on iOS. I'd like to see bigger companies like Gameloft, Square, EA, etc. making a closer to console quality experience on the AppStore. If not, I'll take niche market games, I guess.
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