Table Top Racing Premium Edition: Fair to be charged for something you already owned?

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Greyskull, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. Greyskull

    Greyskull Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2009
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    The original WAS premium.
     
  2. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Yeah i'm torn here. I love this game and bought it the second it came out, granted devs need to make money and perhaps they didnt make enough so thats why it went freemium.

    But now this ? So i have to buy it twice ? What happens if this goes freemium like the last one in the future ?

    I'm normally the first to moan at people if they want for a game to drop in price or get a promo code. I always buy games asap at full price as i want the devs to get full money, but something like this is like a kick in the teeth to me.
     
  3. redribbon

    redribbon Well-Known Member

    Jun 11, 2010
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    "players can win coins"

    this will turn freemium eventually, while the other one got pull from the App Store.

    please dev confirm this, ill buy this instantly if this is the real deal.
     
  4. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    #4 Rip73, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    For anybody who hasn't got it yet, it is without doubt one of the best looking games on iOS and a whole lot of fun.

    A premium version is what a whole lot of people asked for and they put in the effort to do just that to satisfy those people despite the other work they had to do.

    It's unfortunate that they couldn't integrate it in a way to the old version but it couldn't be done and they did try.

    Rather than looking at it negatively, one could view as a premium unlock or an ad remover and a coin doubler all in one to the version they have . Earning is substantially easier than it ever was and acquiring the cars is also substantially easier.

    And despite acquiring the original on day one and finishing it, I'm still perfectly happy to get this one because of viewing it as a premium unlock and ad removal tool and reacquainting myself with a solidly top notch game.

    And just on PSJ's point, no the original version did not make enough as a premium game, hence the switch they had to make on it. This one is unlikely to cover the time invested either but they at least are trying to give people what they asked for. It's not ideal but they definitely are trying hard to please everybody and cover themselves, it's just simply not all possible to do it the way one wants.

    However, I'm still perfectly happy to support the effort by viewing it as an ad remover and coin doubler for a game I already have (from the day one original version) as it is easier to progress than it was originally also.
     
  5. Sanuku

    Sanuku Well-Known Member

    #5 Sanuku, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2014

    Let`s start from the beginning:

    Table Top Racing started as a Premium Game last year and turned in the meantime into a Freemium-iAP-Festival.

    The now so called Premium - Edition is just the same Game in the Version that was released last year in June 2013 without the Freemium Part of the None Premium Version.

    There is already a Freemium Version of the Game out that was similar to the Premium Edition at first but turned afterwards into a Freemium...
     
  6. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

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    #6 psj3809, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    Good post by Rip

    I must admit i loved the original so much i think i'll probably buy this as well. Just have to pretend in my mind it was double the money rather than two seperate apps ! Or like you say just pretend its an 'ad remover'

    But like you say we moaned when it went freemium and i'm sure many of us put 'wish we could buy it as a premium price' and now theres one. So i'll support them (again ;)

    Still frustrating what happened but at the end of the day i want this dev to do well and poor sales might have led to freemium, so if we all buy this for a few dollars/support the dev it should all be good. Still frustrating what happened as i had 'bought' the premium version before though

    I LOVED Micro Machines back in the early 90's on the Megadrive (genesis) and to me this is the best 'micro machines' style game i've found on iOS. Glad they say its not as grindy as well, i'll download this now.

    Thinking about it more we are a funny bunch ! If there was a 1.99 iAP to unlock a premium version (which it used to be) we might all be fine about it, but as its a seperate app we feel a 'bit' cheated. Crazy though !
     
  7. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    #7 Rip73, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    Thanks man.
    As you say some will view it one way or another but we all said when it went freemium that an iap to make it premium again would be better and we'd support it and that's just really how to view this one.
    Knowing the team, they have done the very best they can with it and this was the best option they had available.
    Frustration is perfectly understood but at the end of the day we did more or less get what we wanted.

    Maybe not the way we wanted but still, if it could have been done the other way, I have no doubt they would have done it because I'm very sure this will turn out to be a more expensive exercise for them than us so I'm thankful enough that they listened to what people wanted and tried their best to do just that.
    Plus I do get to re familiarise my self with it from the beginning, which considering how much fun it is, is certainly a good thing.

    On the app size, the previous build had some of the vita code left in the build by mistake.
    It had no effect on the game but it did obviously increase the size. That was rectified for this one and is in the process of being rectified for the freemium build which I'm sure will appear back with that code removed soon enough. I'd imagine so anyway.

    Perhaps I'm taking a gentler approach on it than most but I can see the positives in having a freemium and a premium version despite the timescale and course of events.

    And just to follow on from Sanuku's post, the cost of everything that can be bought in game has been reduced by 50%. All cars, upgrades, wheels and paint jobs. That is still a lot cheaper in game items to the original version so its more than a little bit different than just re releasing the original non freemium version.
    I dunno, if that's not enough for people, I'm not really sure what a dev can do better.
     
  8. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    So wait, Rip, you're trying to justify this by saying they made a premium game, didn't make enough money, turned the first premium game into a freemium game, still didn't make enough money, and then released a separate app as new premium version that we (by we I mean those who bought the original premium game) should view as a coin doubler or some such nonsense for a freemium game we didn't want in the first place when we bought it as a premium game? I'm not sure I follow any if that at all. If I were to buy this it would only be to leave a scathing review on the AppStore, but I probably won't bother with that or anything else these guys ever do. If freemium didn't work out, they should have made the original, originally premium, app I paid for premium again. What's that, given away to too many people? Too f'ing bad, you shouldn't have screwed us by turning it freemium in the first place. That version should have been a separate app. Or you know what, maybe they could get off their lazy butts and make a new game with new content rather than trying every which way to monetize the same damn thing repeatedly.
     
  9. nburcombe

    nburcombe Well-Known Member

    #9 nburcombe, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014
    I feel the need to explain this move....

    ...You are the guys we were most worried about when doing this so please allow me to explain in a short while. I'm just having "Noodles Friday" lunch in the office, but I'll be back on here shortly with a decent (if somewhat convoluted) story for you. Some of you might like it - some of you not. We knew this wouldn't please everyone, but we did it for a number of reasons - all of which I'll explain later.

    And for those worried about this turning free - you have our word! This version will never get adverts and will never turn permanently free. If there are, in the future, specific promotional opportunities with Apple, we will take them of course, but this stays Premium - period.

    Nick Burcombe
    CEO, Playrise Digital
     
  10. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

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    I do see both sides, i may be slightly biased as i loved this game before it went freemium so i'm happy that theres a non freemium one, in a way i 'should' be annoyed that i'm basically paying yet again for the game i had initially.

    Fairplay to the dev for turning up.
     
  11. NOEN

    NOEN Well-Known Member

    Jul 31, 2012
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    I'm going to have to kind of agree with Royce on this one, but I'll wait and see what the developers have to say first.
     
  12. nburcombe

    nburcombe Well-Known Member

    #12 nburcombe, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    Wow! We sure have some explaining to do.... ;) We do take your point Royce but there's much more to the story than you're aware of. I'll answer your points later on, but the one about making a new very that was Freemium is, in hindsight, true...but without a permanent programmer for the first 8 month after launch to really develop the game further, we had to make tough decisions in a short space of time at the risk upsetting some paying customers just to keep going....more where that came from..

    Lazy? I'm not sure that's fair chap..... TTR has been updated throughout 2013, now exists on Android, Shield, Amazon FireTV, AndroidTV (once it launches), Kindle HD/HDX, Samsung SConsole and the soon to be released PS Vita.

    More later

    Nick
     
  13. PoloBaquerizoH

    PoloBaquerizoH Well-Known Member

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    #13 PoloBaquerizoH, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    Everyone pay for this game when it was launched the first time, this only seems like a stealing strategy, I pay a lot including the premium price they had and IAP , this is just a stealing mechanize that some games are starting
    I erased this game, dont contribute to this, and dont buy it
     
  14. nburcombe

    nburcombe Well-Known Member

    No one is forcing you to buy this....you do have a choice you know.
     
  15. Greyskull

    Greyskull Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2009
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    I PAID a premium price for the ORIGINAL version.
     
  16. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

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    But the issue is many of us have already bought the premium priced game, that turned freemium which turned 'some' people off. Now this comes out ? Dont get me wrong i've bought this new version as i really like the game but you must see that if you buy something premier priced and then that changes to freemium, then another premier priced version comes out, does seem to be a bit 'naughty' ?
     
  17. nburcombe

    nburcombe Well-Known Member

    We understand this and we are not expecting you to buy this again, but there are company structural reasons for this move. I will go into it in detail later when I get a spare hour to write something more substantial.

    We had no idea that you guys would still be playing this game and follow it even after a year. You lot - are certainly not typical mobile gamers - you are true gamers and we shouldn't have changed a premium app to a free app. THAT WAS A MISTAKE and it's one we've clearly lost a lot of credibility over with you guys. We are genuinely sorry. We have our reasons but it's a complex story with many facets and to think this was just about greed or money is a mistake. This will be quite a lot of information once I get a chance to write it - but for now...you will have to wait. I see some people have panned us to 1 star already...bit gutted, because you're not reviewing the game, but voicing you anger at the f2p move. I understand it and we have reshaped everything about our company strategy because of this issue. Can't wait to get some real time to write about it properly.

    Nick
     
  18. superhonma

    superhonma Member

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    #18 superhonma, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    I'm aware that it's the principal and not about the actual amount you spent on this game, but some perspective...

    Let's say you spent 2.99 on eggs at a diner. And let's say the eggs take a while to come out, and are pretty cold and not that tasty. Would you ever talk to your server the way you're expressing yourself here? Would you call them lazy? To their face? Would you politely ask them if you could get the eggs warmer? Would you call for a boycot of the diner?

    I'm a musician. I sell some songs on bandcamp for 99 cents each. Some of those songs are demos, and I'm trying to imagine what would happen if I rerecorded some demos and made an album of updated songs, and charged a dollar more. No one would say anything about it, because what is there to say? They'd either buy it or not buy it. Gamers are in a different world...

    I feel bad for developers who have to cater and suck up to some of the fan base on touch arcade and other sites. These people get so demanding for 2 dollars and 99 cents.
     
  19. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

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    #19 Rip73, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
    I don't really need you to follow or actually expect you to because your post is exactly what I thought it would be.

    And you know what, you don't have to buy it. If you already had the previous game, you already had the game, you already played it, you already got your value for money irrelevant of what way you choose to perceive that.

    The dev will explain it a lot better when they get the chance later today, so you can choose to take their word for it or not.
    That choice is totally your own also.

    But considering you're stance on freemium and iap, when it becomes obvious that a dev is making a choice that freemium really just isn't for them, perhaps you should actually support that.
    You don't have to buy the app, you already had it or have it. You can still play it away to your hearts desire if you want to. And that applies to anybody who already had it. Even if you paid the 2.69 it was originally, can anybody in all reality argue that they didn't get their value for money from it? If anybody says they didn't, well, there just really is no point in discussion.

    But you should certainly support the decision on the model that they are making.

    Or perhaps you'd just prefer that no dev reevaluate and just stick to freemium model? Would you prefer that?

    As for your lazy comment, I love the ways those that no nothing at all about the market forces (other than their own perceived "expertise") or what a small dev is doing in the background love to throw that one around.
    When you come up with your own app that is of equal quality to this game, get back to me then and we'll see who can actually be classified as lazy.

    On that, I'm just going to leave it and let the dev give his more detailed reasons later on.
    You should give him a chance though to make his point because his thinking falls in line with what a lot of people on here want from the App Store and it directly relates to requests and comments people on here have made.
    If you're gonna criticise him for that, well then it just proves there really is no pleasing people.

    For those that have the game already, you are under no obligation whatsoever to buy it, you've had/have the game, gotten you're value for money from it at the original premium price point so make your own choice as to whether you want the premium unlock that everybody here requested and said they would be happy to support at the
    last time. Or don't. Whatever. It'll prove a point whatever way it goes.

    For those that haven't gotten it before, I could not more strongly recommend the game. It is an absolute must have.
     
  20. sweetdiss

    sweetdiss Well-Known Member

    Jun 15, 2009
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    I'm kinda in the middle. I was super excited for the original release and bought it on day one. Played the crap out of it for months but slowed down when it started to seem a little grindy toward the end. And now there's a new "premium" version, which I thought I bought in the first place. Would my progress even transfer or would I be starting over from scratch?

    My initial reaction to this was not positive, but at the end of the day, you have to remember this game came out forever ago and was only like three bucks. Worse things have happened, and I think the devs are doing the best they can in a difficult market.
     

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