"No IAP, No Ads, No B******T"

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by unexpect3rd, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. unexpect3rd

    unexpect3rd Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2011
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    Mobile Game Developer (Fulltime as well as indie)
    Singapore
    [not exactly posting a question, just hoping for a discussion]

    The title quote was taken from the description of "One Tap RPG". As a matter of fact, there seem to be an increasing number of developers who would use such descriptions in their paid games. As I read an article somewhere (not sure if it was on TA or elsewhere), the writer implied that being a paid game (full content with no further IAPs within), is becoming a selling point.

    Many indies had argued against IAP: saying for IAPs to be even remotely effective, the game had to be designed around them, and that would stifle creative game designs.

    They argued against Ads: saying advertisements would break immersion.

    Looking at the fate of THREES, a wonderfully designed paid game but got awfully overshadowed by free clones, I can only come to one conclusion: If you want a paid game to have a chance of commercial success, it must not be easily cloned. Vis-a-vis, if your game is simple, keep it free, or at least have a free version (case in point, Timberman? not sure if its a good example)
     
  2. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Personally I think having a free version is important and is one thing you can compete on. It is easy to have a paid version with no ads for those want want to support.

    I want to get my games in the most hands possible, this means free is the only way. It may not be most profitable but it sure beats a small number of paid downloads which wouldn't cover development costs anyway.

    I guess I avoid IAP cause I don't really have mechanics which suit it. I feel they would make my games less fun. I don't feel ads do that and I tend to think people are mostly understanding of ads if they haven't paid for it. If they have paid on the other hand they would be fuming if there were ads.
     
  3. Xammond

    Xammond Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2014
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    Having your game in many hands is all very nice but at the end of the day you are going to want to pay utility bills and eat more food. Apart from that it's a good idea to pay licenses and buy equipment. You might even find some new tax gets invented that really screws you up...

    Yeah many hands does not make light worries.
     
  4. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Personally I don't think the small amount of money would make any difference over the chance to go viral.

    For me I never worry about that since I have a full time job I love and I would have to make a lot to even get the stage I could consider a change (not that I would). Because I have the security of being paid I don't make choices based on it isn't paying the bills and anything I make is a bonus.
     
  5. Design by Adrian

    Design by Adrian Active Member

    Apr 8, 2014
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    Mobile/Web Designer & Developer
    London / Stockholm
    I think "No IAP, No Ads" as a selling point only works with dedicated gamers. Or hipsters. I hate IAPs, but I'd buy a game if it's good, not because it doesn't have ads or IAPs!

    Personally, I'd prefer if all paid games had a demo version, or, better yet, a full mode which can be unlocked using IAP. That way I can try the game, and pay if I like it and want more. This way a developer could potentially get more buyers.

    I also believe ads that can be disabled using IAP could potentially give developers a bit more cash than having the game completely free.
     
  6. As Ace Attorney Trilogy and Ghost Trick detective.
     
  7. Xammond

    Xammond Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2014
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    I seem to be in a good position! Where as I'm not used to relying on a decent wage and have become accustomed to turning off lights behind me etc...any income is good.

    The topic of this thread is exactly how I went about things in 2010 with 'BubbleSand' launching at 99c. A year later I launched 'Tetroms' and almost immediately went completely free with no ads and no iap. For sure this time I am favouring the thread topic except with the addition of a 'lite' version (as mentioned elsewhere). But this discussion is tempting me to have one single version for free with the below options:

    Play x amount for free. Then offer the player to continue with an ad banner, or pay a minimal fee to continue without one. An unobstructive button near the main menu would allow the upgrade at any time.
     
  8. DyabitGames

    DyabitGames Member

    Mar 14, 2014
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    #8 DyabitGames, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
    Hello!

    Talking from my own experience, customers are happy / aren't happy with any developer strategy so, in the end, developers should do whatever they think is right for their products and business.

    If you release a paid game, people will complain / won't complain.
    If you release a free + ads game, people will complain / won't complain.
    If you release a free + IAP game, people will complain / won't complain.
    If you release a free game, people will complain / won't complain.

    No matter what you do: people will complain / won't complain. That happens in almost any creative job (games, music, art, etc.).

    I prefer PAID model because ads aren't profitable unless you get massive downloads volume, and that's not easy for indie developers even being free and featured by Apple. Also, paid downloads usually come from people really interested in your type of game, so you're more likely to get better reviews and ratings.

    But, as you said, in order to success with paid model, you have to release a fun, polished, high quality, original and unique game, "never seen before" and hard to clone.
     
  9. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    and market it well.
     
  10. Xammond

    Xammond Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2014
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    This is the part which concerns me. As a one-man-band I find marketing to be extremely frustrating because I can put so much in to developing and get out what I put in, but try and get people's time is better left to the experts who have the connections and gift of the gab.

    It takes me back a step to when I considered releasing two versions, as suggested. But iirc Apple were not keen on developers doing this?
     
  11. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    I don't know why apple wouldn't like it.


    But yeah marketing is as important as doing the game, if not more. I know I am doing a crappy job of it but I am not willing to invest the thousands needed to do an okay job.

    I have built up my twitter following and plan to do a small amount of marketing with my next games and see if it helps., but really I am looking at spending hundreds and don't want to spend like 50 cents for each free downloading. I trying to find stuff that gives much better results but I am not sure what at the moment.
     
  12. unexpect3rd

    unexpect3rd Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2011
    369
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    18
    Mobile Game Developer (Fulltime as well as indie)
    Singapore
    I too find it very frustrating doing marketing. Especially when I'm just a nobody, it just feels like no ones want to pay attention to you or what you have to say about your game. And the question of "How much is enough?", as a solo developer, I can not spend all my time doing marketing for one game, I need to either move on to developing updates for the game, or move on to a new project, but how much marketing is enough? When do I decide that "my game is not getting traction and I should just stop here" and move on to the next one?

    To be honest, I'd rather spend more time on actually designing and making games, but if I hope to build something sustainable out of this, I'd need to learn and perform every aspect, from design and development to marketing and customer service.
     
  13. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    This part particularly on the review part can be disheartening. I have given up emailing review sites. The only ones who ever reply are the ones who want to charge me (normally large amounts) to do a review.

    I basically just post on a bunch of forums, twitter, website, youtube and hope that is enough.
     
  14. Have you ever tried the submission services? The ones that charge $30 to submit your game to like 500 news outlets.
     
  15. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    I haven't but I don't know why they would get a different result.
     
  16. I guess its wishful thinking that you would get something more that doing it yourself for the money you pay them.

    My idea was to link to my other games in each app I release. Over time that might create a knock on effect.
     
  17. Blackharon

    Blackharon Well-Known Member

    Mar 15, 2010
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    Game Designer for Ludia
    Canada
    If you want similar results but to not spend the time doing it, those services might help. Just be sure to get the list of sites they will send it to (or they have sent it to at the very least). Likely, most are no-name sites.

    If you want better results, get a real PR firm on your side. However, they're much more expensive.
     
  18. Xammond

    Xammond Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2014
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    I used prMac (free option) and wrote my own press release. I would certainly go for their writing service this time.
     
  19. OnlyJoe

    OnlyJoe Well-Known Member

    Sep 29, 2013
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    Auckland
    I think one big problem in all this is jailbreaking. I released an app that does server side validation of in-app purchases, and I was shocked by how many fake attempts at purchases were done. It is aimed at a teenage market, which I think have a higher number of jailbroken devices. But about 20% of the people who used it tried to make fake purchases.
    So if you put a remove advertising for a dollar option, then you might just find that 20% of the people have removed the advertising, and not actually paid to do so.
    Also I think this does force developers towards using in-app purchases, because you can validate them. And then put some checking logic in your own game to get the response from your server. This could still be cracked, but it would mean that someone would have to spend time actually hacking your game. Where as most people are just using the already made software for jailbroken phones to get free in-app purchases.
     
  20. Xaron

    Xaron Well-Known Member

    Oct 16, 2013
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    Well that's nothing compared to the piracy in the Android market... :/
     

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