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'Save Dan' Off Topic Arguing

04-21-2016, 06:30 AM
#1
Senior Member [Original Poster]
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 374
'Save Dan' Off Topic Arguing

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppUnwrapper View Post
I guess I could have expanded. I find it odd that they left out of the game's description this part:

"Bon vivan, millionaire and poker player Dan Bilzerian has been attacked in the cyber world by sexy zombies! These villains want him as much as the long-legged beauties in real life, but unlike the cuddly girls Dan is surrounded with at all times, these creatures are bloodthirsty."

Which, as a woman, I'm not entirely comfortable with.

Even their press release on their site says things like "hot chicks," "hot women," "the best-looking girls"... who are all then reduced to targets. None of this is in the game's description. I just find it odd, and thought others might want to know before giving it a download.
Personally speaking, as a grown man with a young daughter, who worries how crass media and entertainment still use such blatant tactics to compel a demographic of teenage boys and brain dead morons to part with their money and in doing so, further objectify women, I feel you are more than justified in sharing the contents of that email and their website. It's clearly marketing to promote their game so it is designed to be shared openly - and let's be honest, most people with a brain will see it for exactly what it is. Well done for highlighting this.
04-21-2016, 07:14 AM
#2
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZS77 View Post
Personally speaking, as a grown man with a young daughter, who worries how crass media and entertainment still use such blatant tactics to compel a demographic of teenage boys and brain dead morons to part with their money and in doing so, further objectify women, I feel you are more than justified in sharing the contents of that email and their website. It's clearly marketing to promote their game so it is designed to be shared openly - and let's be honest, most people with a brain will see it for exactly what it is. Well done for highlighting this.
Thanks!
I didn't want to give the game extra attention on my own site, but I figured if people are finding out about it here, they should at least get the full picture before helping the game climb up the charts.

04-21-2016, 07:21 AM
#3
Joined: May 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZS77 View Post
Personally speaking, as a grown man with a young daughter, who worries how crass media and entertainment still use such blatant tactics to compel a demographic of teenage boys and brain dead morons to part with their money and in doing so, further objectify women, I feel you are more than justified in sharing the contents of that email and their website. It's clearly marketing to promote their game so it is designed to be shared openly - and let's be honest, most people with a brain will see it for exactly what it is. Well done for highlighting this.
Good thing no one is forcing you to play this then

Sex sells and there is nothing wrong with that

You might find this game ridiculous, i'm sure i would too but then we're probably not their target demographic
04-21-2016, 08:46 AM
#4
Senior Member [Original Poster]
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jn2002dk View Post
Sex sells....
Agreed.

Quote:
...and there is nothing wrong with that.....
Really?!....to an extent I agree....providing it is consensual and doesn't demean or objectify.

Trust me, I'm far from being a prude - but that doesn't mean I don't have a moral compass! Just because something is the 'norm' within a section of society, doesn't mean it is right or shouldn't be questioned. Gaming has come a long way from the image of the nerdy teenage boy sat in his bedroom, fapping off over a low polygon count Lara Croft!....but apparently now it's acceptable if it's a higher res zombie 'chick'?!

I understand games (especially f2p) need a USP to stand out these days but come on.....if your market research suggested your best target audience was a niche group of kinky death-fetish, misogynistic, gun-toting teenagers, surely you would question it.....or at the very least, your involvement in creating a product off the back of that advice?!

But then again, maybe I'm the odd one for taking a higher moral view and airing it on an Internet forum.....I'd like to think I'm not alone though.

To put it in context - if this game was any good, would they need to rely on schoolboy titillation to sell it? I think we all largely agree that the gaming market (especially on mobile) is swamped with derivative, shallow, f2p dross. I am fully aware it is an open market and everyone is entitled to create their product as they see fit and sell it to the masses, that doesn't mean we all have to lap it up like brainless morons - as consumers we have a choice and I would like to think that most of us on a site like TA would show discretion in how we use that.

The unfortunate sad truth is that you are utlimately correct, sex sells. That doesn't mean I have to like it or assume the rest of society should either. There's plenty of free and readily available porn on the Internet anyway, so how about we choose not to support its inclusion in the games market - a market which has grown exponentially since it's wider inclusion of women and other demographic groups, outside of the pre-pubescent teen frantically trying to rotate the camera to get a look at Lara's pointy tits from the front?!....admit it, anyone old enough to remember it on PS1 tried it!

Rant over - although I believe my comments aren't unreasonable, hopefully you all take it with the air of comedic zealousness that was intended!

Edit: And yes, I am aware of the irony that by ranting like this, I am creating greater awareness and publicity of the game.....it's true, there's no such thing as bad publicity....

Last edited by ZS77; 04-21-2016 at 08:51 AM.
04-21-2016, 08:54 AM
#5
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by jn2002dk View Post
Sex sells and there is nothing wrong with that.
When the "sex" they are selling is shooting sexualized women in the face, there is something wrong with it.
04-21-2016, 09:11 AM
#6
Joined: May 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by andysmash View Post
When the "sex" they are selling is shooting sexualized women in the face, there is something wrong with it.
Why do you get to decide that?

Freedom of creativity my friend. It's extremely important and i don't want the thought police to decide what i can and can't think or say

Quote:
but that doesn't mean I don't have a moral compass!
And what makes you so sure your compass is the right one?

Quote:
if your market research suggested your best target audience was a niche group of kinky death-fetish, misogynistic, gun-toting teenagers, surely you would question it.....or at the very least, your involvement in creating a product off the back of that advice?!
Yes, I would but i sure don't want a world where people can't create art the way they vision it because of the perpetually offended

Quote:
But then again, maybe I'm the odd one for taking a higher moral view
And who decides your moral is the higher one? You? You see the problem here right?

Quote:
but apparently now it's acceptable if it's a higher res zombie 'chick'?!
So people have to run through a check list to see if what ever floats their boat is ok with the thought police?

As long as it's not illegal or harmful (physically harmful, not omg i'm offended harmful) you and i have no business telling people what they should like/dislike

Quote:
The unfortunate sad truth is that you are utlimately correct, sex sells. That doesn't mean I have to like it or assume the rest of society should either
Newsflash - If people didn't like sex you wouldn't be here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding something attractive. At all. This puritan way of looking at the world needs to go back to 1800s where it belongs

Quote:
There's plenty of free and readily available porn on the Internet anyway, so how about we choose not to support its inclusion in the games market
How about we don't? Or better yet, how about we let the developers and the free market decide? I certainly don't want people with views like yours deciding what is and isn't ok

If people dislike these type of games they will not buy them and people won't make them. It's that simple. Of course, we both know they do sell so you propose we thought police developers and consumers. I don't really think you can claim the high road while trying to force other people to stop liking what you don't

Quote:
a market which has grown exponentially since it's wider inclusion of women and other demographic groups
An often cited fact by the socially just but ultimately wrong when it comes to core gamers

By the way, you're the one trying to exclude people here. I have no problem with Candy Crush or the latest Kardashian game. If people want to waste money on those who am i to say they shouldn't?

In the same spirit, if people want to play games where a dude is banging sexed up chicks, shooting zombies and drinking vodka why shouldn't they? Surely being inclusive means there is room for all kinds?

Quote:
although I believe my comments aren't unreasonable, hopefully you all take it with the air of comedic zealousness that was intended!
Absolutely. I have no problem accepting people like different things than me. Unlike some

I was actually going to stop posting in this thread when Appunwrapper replied to me last night but when more people started to chime in about the horrors of misogynistic gamers etc. i had to. As someone who has been a gamer since the early 80s i don't appreciated the politically correct injecting gender politics into my hobby. They poison everything they touch and i wont stand idle by while they do it to gaming

Let me leave you with a quote from Stephen Fry, a gay man who knows a thing or 2 about being a minority

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so 💩💩💩💩ing what."

Last edited by jn2002dk; 04-21-2016 at 09:17 AM.
04-21-2016, 09:52 AM
#7
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 623
Yep, just saw the trailer for this. The makers of this game clearly has issues with women. Maybe it's dislike, resentment or hatred, who knows. This game deserves no more attention after my post.
04-21-2016, 09:55 AM
#8
Quote:
Originally Posted by jn2002dk View Post
Why do you get to decide that?

Freedom of creativity my friend. It's extremely important and i don't want the thought police to decide what i can and can't think or say

And what makes you so sure your compass is the right one?

Yes, I would but i sure don't want a world where people can't create art the way they vision it because of the perpetually offended

And who decides your moral is the higher one? You? You see the problem here right?

So people have to run through a check list to see if what ever floats their boat is ok with the thought police?

As long as it's not illegal or harmful (physically harmful, not omg i'm offended harmful) you and i have no business telling people what they should like/dislike

Newsflash - If people didn't like sex you wouldn't be here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding something attractive. At all. This puritan way of looking at the world needs to go back to 1800s where it belongs

How about we don't? Or better yet, how about we let the developers and the free market decide? I certainly don't want people with views like yours deciding what is and isn't ok

If people dislike these type of games they will not buy them and people won't make them. It's that simple. Of course, we both know they do sell so you propose we thought police developers and consumers. I don't really think you can claim the high road while trying to force other people to stop liking what you don't

An often cited fact by the socially just but ultimately wrong when it comes to core gamers

By the way, you're the one trying to exclude people here. I have no problem with Candy Crush or the latest Kardashian game. If people want to waste money on those who am i to say they shouldn't?

In the same spirit, if people want to play games where a dude is banging sexed up chicks, shooting zombies and drinking vodka why shouldn't they? Surely being inclusive means there is room for all kinds?

Absolutely. I have no problem accepting people like different things than me. Unlike some

I was actually going to stop posting in this thread when Appunwrapper replied to me last night but when more people started to chime in about the horrors of misogynistic gamers etc. i had to. As someone who has been a gamer since the early 80s i don't appreciated the politically correct injecting gender politics into my hobby. They poison everything they touch and i wont stand idle by while they do it to gaming

Let me leave you with a quote from Stephen Fry, a gay man who knows a thing or 2 about being a minority

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so 💩💩💩💩ing what."
People have the right to be disgusted by something even if it doesn't bother you. I don't understand this need to tell people that they shouldn't voice their opinion. At the very least, it will help those who know they don't want to support this message, to avoid it. That is how a free market works. If you don't like a product, you warn others about it. Since it's already too late for "just let it die off quietly."
04-21-2016, 10:17 AM
#9
Joined: May 2009
Location: Denmark
Posts: 418
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppUnwrapper View Post
People have the right to be disgusted by something even if it doesn't bother you. I don't understand this need to tell people that they shouldn't voice their opinion. At the very least, it will help those who know they don't want to support this message, to avoid it. That is how a free market works. If you don't like a product, you warn others about it. Since it's already too late for "just let it die off quietly."
Of course they do and i have no problem with that

However, it cuts both ways. I have a right to voice my opinion on the matter too. Which i did
04-21-2016, 10:17 AM
#10
Senior Member [Original Poster]
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jn2002dk View Post
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so 💩💩💩💩ing what."
Do you even see the irony in this statement?! If my comments hadn't offend you, you wouldn't have been driven to post such a vehement reply. Surely you are just as guilty of openly voicing your disdain?

And to be fair, my comments were slightly more involved than a simple 'I'm rather offended by that.'. The eloquent Mr Fry was pertaining to those who whine or complain with little or no substance to their argument but feel the need to follow blindly or voice their opinion in such a flaccid manner so as to feel they belong to one camp or another. I find it hard to believe that a man so involved in open debate and discussion about innumerable topics would be so closed minded to an educated discussion.

Also, what relevance does being in a minortiy have to the argument?! I don't see how that justifies or reinforces your point.

To summarise though - I've always been brought up to question censorship and dictates from authority, whether it be government or corporations - that's what happens when you're parents are hippies. By your own admission though, creativity (which includes free speech) is the the right of every person and it should be exercised - except by me it seems?!

As for the relevance of Orwell's 'thought police', I don't get it?! I'm not suggesting a Daily Mail like response to eradicating sexual exploitation and violence in video games - I'm simply suggesting people don't support it by spending money on it. I'm not forcing or coercing anyone, just asking people to consider it from another angle and to see the bigger picture. You're the one who's getting aggressive in their response - and from the sounds of it, you're probably the kind of person I would want my daughter to steer well clear of in the future too.

So, I would suggest for now you pop your tin-foil hat back on in case the thought police are narrowing in on those elevated alpha waves of yours, and keep your misguided, hypocritical faux-socialist, passive-aggressive stance to yourself. How's that for enforced selective censorship?

....blah, blah, blah....I can't hear you....la, la, la..../fingers in ears/.....