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iPhone: PRG - character management vs. story

View Poll Results: character customization (special, gurps, etc. or story and gameplay?
complex stat system with a lot management options 5 20.00%
immersive gameplay and story 20 80.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll
12-25-2008, 02:50 AM
#1
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 27
PRG - character management vs. story

For an RPG game on your iphone, would you rather have a very detailed character management system where you can affect every little aspect of it, or would rather focus on the gameplay(not the character management) and the story. please consider the iPhone platform and touch limitations while answering. Also consider the time you spent gaming and how long would you spend customizing your character and how much actual gameplay would be left. just assume.... ^-^
12-25-2008, 02:52 AM
#2
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 143
I want Diablo...so a good story and lots of items / customization would be ideal.

12-25-2008, 03:05 AM
#3
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by OahuSurf View Post
I want Diablo...so a good story and lots of items / customization would be ideal.
stop thinking of it as a computer / console. its a phone/mp3 player, and unless its proclamed a dedicated device, it will cater for a general audience and not hardcore gaming. having such world and character customization detail as Diablo would take months to develop and you will not be happy to pay 20$ for it.
For me, a great story is by far more important that being able to customize my characters luck, flee, barter skills or whatever. i'd be more than happy if the game did it for me as i level. thats why this issue arises. With playability of about 6 hours for a mobile game and with about 30-60 minutes game session, what do you want, to play the game or to create a detailed character that wont stay there for long...
12-25-2008, 03:33 AM
#4
I thought Vay was a great start for iPhone RPGs. There was some story, and the game had a decent play through time. Sure it fell short in a lot of ways but it was afterall just a Sega CD port of a so-so RPG to begin with.

I would much rather have a nice story that has a strong foundation. If I can only play the game for a few minutes each day, I would much rather spend that time learning more about this universe and the progressive storyline than fiddling around with hit points and different armor.
12-25-2008, 03:44 AM
#5
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 304
I would want both. Do it so that you can price it at $9.99 premiums. If the story is good and you get to upgrade the characters, buy items etc. The game will sell itself. I think personally, you can't price too much for iphone game but you can earn back profits by selling more!

You either price it too high and get less buyers or you price it at least at premiums and sells more. As generally, people won't pay you more for iphone games might as well you make the game so damn good and popular that it will sell more by recommendations (word of mouth). Also, you need to see that every year Apple will try to sell more iphone/itouch so that means more future customers for you down the line and some of them are not members of Toucharcade. They might only be browsing the itunes store and if they read how good the reviews are for your games, definitely you'll sell more. Keep updating it with new maps or whatever so that your game won't be forgotten and people will see it and through the years people will still be buying it!

So, even if you make a good game and only sell for $9.99 if you keep selling it you'll earn back your money!

But if you sell it at $20 for an iphone game, I'll certainly bulk at it even though, maybe it's popular. Game price for the iphone is totally unique i think!

I think the name of the game is, to make a good game. The rest will follow. But, you'll have to make it an original on the iphone and not some porting of others games. So that you can build from the grounds up and also budget yourself for the iphone market if not, you'll be losing not just customers but sales too!

You can't depend on just one game to sell. You need to make more games to earn more profits of course. You can also keep updating it and improve on it so that you can keep selling the game for years and years!

Soooo.. err.. my point is I want both! hahahaha!!

Hope this help in your game development strategy!



Edit: Can you give a third vote option for those of us that wants both?
2nd Edit: Or give us an option in the game. So, that we can choose the
stats or whatever if we want or character development. If you can actually
do that? You please both sides?

A good sword remain inside its sheath
A good M16 remain in safe mode
God! So, many games n so little money!!

Last edited by along123; 12-25-2008 at 03:49 AM. Reason: blah blah
12-25-2008, 04:48 AM
#6
Since people already quoted Diablo, it's obvious that character management comes first. Diablo's greatest achievement was how it rewarded players by always dangling the next carrot in front of their noses, be it the next skill to get, level to gain or piece of armor to loot.

Besides, we're talking about games. A good game with a bad story is almost par for the course, whereas a good story will not carry a bad game.
12-25-2008, 06:59 AM
#7
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by along123 View Post
I would want both. Do it so that you can price it at $9.99 premiums. If the story is good and you get to upgrade the characters, buy items etc. The game will sell itself. I think personally, you can't price too much for iphone game but you can earn back profits by selling more!
I was exaggerating when i said 20, but you know, just to wage peoples oppinions and find out true values. =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by along123 View Post
So, even if you make a good game and only sell for $9.99 if you keep selling it you'll earn back your money!
it all just starting out personally i think even 10 is quite high, 6 is probably perfect for a good title. BUT! american green is so worthless right now, i have to pay 1.5 of the price here in New Zealand but besides the case, most of the best games on appstore i bought were either on special or were not more then 6$. Galcon was probably most expensive one i bought (back in the day). Still waiting for rolando to go on special, dont wana pay 13$ (NZ) for it right now... although its worthy, i have lots of others to entertain myself with for now. =P

Quote:
Originally Posted by along123 View Post
I think the name of the game is, to make a good game. The rest will follow.
aha.... like rolando. they even bought out toucharcade to change their background! ohmygod i cannot imagine how much they spent on their advertizing, but it must have been paid out quadriple in the first few hours of sales ;]

Quote:
Originally Posted by along123 View Post
Soooo.. err.. my point is I want both! hahahaha!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by along123 View Post
Can you give a third vote option for those of us that wants both?
cannot :P the whole point is to truly find out what draws people more, the charactar management or the world emmersiveness and the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by along123 View Post
Or give us an option in the game. So, that we can choose the
stats or whatever if we want or character development. If you can actually
do that? You please both sides?
noone's making anything as of YET, but, wouldnt it be a great waste of resource to make an indepth character setup and let the user simply turn it off? It would be rather more tangible to make two different games then to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nate@pdxine.com
Vay was a great start for iPhone RPGs. Sure it fell short in a lot of ways but it was afterall just a Sega CD port of a so-so RPG to begin with.
iphone games should exist only on iphone, due to the platform unique interface and controls. Spinoffs of existing titles are fine, as long as they accomodate good platform integration. Things like Square Enix's new game is a totall miss the point thing even though its not a remake (but truly, with square enix, everything is a remake of um... FF-likeness?) =\

Quote:
I would much rather have a nice story that has a strong foundation. If I can only play the game for a few minutes each day, I would much rather spend that time learning more about this universe and the progressive storyline than fiddling around with hit points and different armor.
great comment! i share this oppinion, but the poll should show in a few days what people think.

Quote:
Since people already quoted Diablo, it's obvious that character management comes first.
Its obvious that character management is a game feature and is certainly NOT first. Look at PSP's Final Fantasy Crisis Core. The game is average, but it caters for both, the casual wana-hacknslash through the game and find out what happen, and the hardcore wana-customize-my-materia-to-the-shits kinda gamers, and its cool, BUT, the game was short in essense, but long in its useless battles and annoying encounters. the ending was great, and i'm glad i finished it, but again, i had to struggle through boredom to get there.... this is not the kind of game i would wana play agian. So, back to the character management essence, it is, what makes an RPG an RPG, BUT it also introduces the 'management' part of it as well. With iphone screen this small, having more of the game and less of the interface/management part is best, even if you have to go into multimple windows, but keeping it down is best to fit the mobile gaming session time. You will customize your character to the bits, and before you know it, the game has ended..

Quote:
A good game with a bad story is almost par for the course, whereas a good story will not carry a bad game.
so you're saying you'll play a game with a shit story? how does that make a good game then? (speaking of rpg's that is.. We already know examples of bad stories with plubmers and dragon captive princesess, but great gameplays )

a game with a great story is already a good game, however dumb the AI wouldnt be, however bad the music is, however unpredictable the camera is, you will look past those mistakes, and be drawn into a story. honest.
if i am to give you a game that give all the character cutomization in the world, but say, the game has no story at all, would you be bothered making a character for nothing?..
12-25-2008, 07:23 AM
#8
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomand View Post
Its obvious that character management is a game feature and is certainly NOT first. Look at PSP's Final Fantasy Crisis Core. The game is average, but it caters for both, the casual wana-hacknslash through the game and find out what happen, and the hardcore wana-customize-my-materia-to-the-shits kinda gamers, and its cool, BUT, the game was short in essense, but long in its useless battles and annoying encounters. the ending was great, and i'm glad i finished it, but again, i had to struggle through boredom to get there.... this is not the kind of game i would wana play agian. So, back to the character management essence, it is, what makes an RPG an RPG, BUT it also introduces the 'management' part of it as well. With iphone screen this small, having more of the game and less of the interface/management part is best, even if you have to go into multimple windows, but keeping it down is best to fit the mobile gaming session time. You will customize your character to the bits, and before you know it, the game has ended..
Okay, I understand what you're saying, and misunderstood. I don't think the features for character management should be extensive. What I do emphasize, however, is that it's fun and rewarding to just click on anything extensively. That's what Diablo did well... you basically just sit and click for hours, and the game keeps throwing fireworks at you.

Did Diablo even have a story? If there was, I don't remember anything other than "go down a dozen levels and kill that demon". The rewarding mechanism, low complexity of the interface, together with the excellent design regarding replayability made it a winner.


Quote:
so you're saying you'll play a game with a shit story? how does that make a good game then? (speaking of rpg's that is.. We already know examples of bad stories with plubmers and dragon captive princesess, but great gameplays )
I honestly don't recall many games that would have had good stories. FFVII was captivating for its time, but I don't know if it's covered with nostalgia. All the FF games that have come after it have just been derivative crap or disappointments in general as far as their stories went (haven't played FFXII).


Quote:
a game with a great story is already a good game, however dumb the AI wouldnt be, however bad the music is, however unpredictable the camera is, you will look past those mistakes, and be drawn into a story. honest.
if i am to give you a game that give all the character cutomization in the world, but say, the game has no story at all, would you be bothered making a character for nothing?..
Yeah, I'd rather have a character in a sandbox with good playability, rewarding and challenge than a story. Philosophically, I'd even argue that a story is a detriment to character development, since a story reduces replayability and enforces a linear game structure.
12-25-2008, 07:35 AM
#9
They go hand in hand,

WOW is a perfect example of this, do a quest, gather a whole bunch of crap, spend the same amount of time as you did on the quest working out what to do with all your crap.

Repeat.

The end.

PHARTGAMES
AutoMangle - 3D Vehicular combat
AlienMangle - 3D FPS WOOT!!!!
12-25-2008, 07:45 AM
#10
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHARTGAMES View Post
They go hand in hand,

WOW is a perfect example of this, do a quest, gather a whole bunch of crap, spend the same amount of time as you did on the quest working out what to do with all your crap.

Repeat.

The end.
Agreed, but to think that an indie effort could reach your example (or Diablo, for that matter) is too bold, and given the need to compromise in scope, it's better to skimp on the story than the game mechanics. Trying to do both would mean an average result that leaves no-one satisfied.