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platform exclusivity - what are you considering?

View Poll Results: which platforms are you targetting
iPhone / iPod Touch 23 88.46%
Google Android 2 7.69%
Symbian S60 or UIQ 2 7.69%
Windows Mobile 1 3.85%
Sony PSP 4 15.38%
Nintendo DS/DSi 6 23.08%
Maemo / Mobile Linux 2 7.69%
Desktop Linux 1 3.85%
Windows XP/Vista/7 5 19.23%
Mac OS X 8 30.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll
12-10-2009, 04:53 PM
#1
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to mobile1up
platform exclusivity - what are you considering?

i've been developing for mobile platforms for over 10 years now - working with almost every platform that has been produced. as a developer on the iphone platform; are you considering other platforms to work with? if so; which ones?

mobile1up uses its own internal "cross-platform" development kit so that there are very little iphone specific code within its games which allows us to port the games to other platforms very easily - we would like to gauge if there is an interest level to consider licensing it to external parties.. we have licensed it in the past; but only within a close friend community.

// Aaron Ardiri
Mobile 1UP is a proud indie developer - support us!
developer of Caveman / Caveman HD and GW Series
12-10-2009, 05:00 PM
#2
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,610
Send a message via MSN to spidey146 Send a message via Yahoo to spidey146
i would love some of your games on DS and iDevice, i wonder if others would feel the same way though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Porkenheimer View Post
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12-10-2009, 05:06 PM
#3
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to mobile1up
Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey146 View Post
i would love some of your games on DS and iDevice, i wonder if others would feel the same way though
i would love to get access to the DSi SDK - but, i doubt nintendo would be interested in my games i've dealt with their legal team many times - and i hear that you need to have quite an established company to even see the SDK. i have played with DS development way back; i need to find my DS devices - but it was restricted to homebrew - would love to be in the DSi store

it wouldn't take much to get all our stuff on other platforms - we have designed our games for portability.

// Aaron Ardiri
Mobile 1UP is a proud indie developer - support us!
developer of Caveman / Caveman HD and GW Series
12-10-2009, 05:08 PM
#4
I'm considering PSP and DS as targets for my next game after the iPhone / iPod Touch version is complete. Are you suggesting you have simple method to port between these devices? I'd be curious to know a bit more, and I am sure others here would too...

--- ChronoSoft ---
Support your roguelikes! Play Rogue Touch today!
Spirit Hunter Mineko: Demons Reach --- Work in progress! Follow us on Twitter!
12-10-2009, 05:17 PM
#5
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to mobile1up
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderData View Post
I'm considering PSP and DS as targets for my next game after the iPhone / iPod Touch version is complete. Are you suggesting you have simple method to port between these devices? I'd be curious to know a bit more, and I am sure others here would too...
well; we have a cross-platform development kit - it is called SHARK

http://www.mobilewizardry.com/multi-platform/

(yes, mobilewizardry is my company) - you can find on that site a bunch of games that are commercially released using this development kit. our iphone games uses SHARK 3 (the page above is from 2001! - version 1). we kept it internal for almost 10 years - and, we use it exclusively!

if you want to see how the code looks - check our Effektz; our demo code

http://www.mobile1up.com/effektz/

there are links there showing how code is written. we are working on a framework that is cross platform for doing 2D sprite programming similar to the cocos2d library to maximize the Open GL ES SDK - we use it already; but in a framebuffer approach. i am exploring if we should devote more time internally to it; and open it up for everyone to use

we even have a SHARK BAIT BOX; which, is a linux machine running virtual machines that do the cross compiling to every platform. so you dont even need to own a mac etc to build binaries.

// Aaron Ardiri
Mobile 1UP is a proud indie developer - support us!
developer of Caveman / Caveman HD and GW Series
12-10-2009, 05:25 PM
#6
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to mobile1up
btw - for real-life proof - check out blog:

http://www.mobile1up.com/blog/

you will see "GW Series" running on moblin (www.moblin.org) - it took us around 3 hours to update SHARK to support it, and all our games recompiled and worked the same day i purchased the netbook and installed moblin on it. intel is launching an application store; and we intend to be on it.

i can also clarify that we build native binaries - it isn't a runtime; and you can write custom code for each platform as needed (our games have iphone specific highscore submission systems) so you are not tied to what our environment provides; it is 100% flexible and the more you design cross-platform, the more easier it will be to migrate to other platforms.

// Aaron Ardiri
Mobile 1UP is a proud indie developer - support us!
developer of Caveman / Caveman HD and GW Series

Last edited by mobile1up; 12-10-2009 at 05:42 PM.
12-11-2009, 03:18 PM
#7
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobile1up View Post
i would love to get access to the DSi SDK - but, i doubt nintendo would be interested in my games i've dealt with their legal team many times - and i hear that you need to have quite an established company to even see the SDK. i have played with DS development way back; i need to find my DS devices - but it was restricted to homebrew - would love to be in the DSi store

it wouldn't take much to get all our stuff on other platforms - we have designed our games for portability.
Not really its fairly open.

You need offices though an a real company etc to apply.

Having shipped other games helped.

After that you need 5000$ or less in development gear.

Might be like $2000
12-11-2009, 03:24 PM
#8
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderData View Post
I'm considering PSP and DS as targets for my next game after the iPhone / iPod Touch version is complete. Are you suggesting you have simple method to port between these devices? I'd be curious to know a bit more, and I am sure others here would too...
The DS / DSi at least is nothing like programming the iPhone.

For one you only get 4-16MB ram.

and a CPU that is 66 - 130(?) Mhz Arm with no FPU
and no OpenGL.

Any how its a lot of work to get most iphone games to run on the DS.

Its very specialized low level hardware vs the iphone is pretty much like programming a 10 year old PC / Mac with a decent GPU.

My advice is stick to iPhone unless you have a lot of time on you hands.

You also need a publisher...

With out one even as a developer you will not be allowed to ship anything on
DS / Wii.

/me is going through all this now...

My engine .... the one in Mouse House runs on

iPhone, Wii, Mac, Win, Linux.

In the time it took to port the engine and 1 game with it to Wii I probably could have put out 10 decent iphones games using the tech already in place...
12-11-2009, 03:41 PM
#9
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 754
Send a message via Skype™ to mobile1up
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunny View Post
The DS / DSi at least is nothing like programming the iPhone. For one you only get 4-16MB ram. and a CPU that is 66 - 130(?) Mhz Arm with no FPU and no OpenGL.
sounds like my dream hardware. SHARK also supports Palm OS - which is no longer actively in use; which has less than those specifications.. not everything needs open GL ES FPU can be worked around with fast integer fixed point maths.. but you are right about the publisher issue.

// Aaron Ardiri
Mobile 1UP is a proud indie developer - support us!
developer of Caveman / Caveman HD and GW Series
12-11-2009, 04:07 PM
#10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBunny View Post
The DS / DSi at least is nothing like programming the iPhone.

For one you only get 4-16MB ram.

and a CPU that is 66 - 130(?) Mhz Arm with no FPU
and no OpenGL.

Any how its a lot of work to get most iphone games to run on the DS.

Its very specialized low level hardware vs the iphone is pretty much like programming a 10 year old PC / Mac with a decent GPU.

My advice is stick to iPhone unless you have a lot of time on you hands.
Those specs are fine. A lot of times you get memory warnings on the iPhone if you try to use more than 20-25MB of RAM (due to mail, safari, etc) so I plan on some clever tricks to keep it in the 10-15MB range on my next game anyway.

No OpenGL, no problem. All my past and future games will be 2-D, sprite based with individual frames of animation. The DS hardware is obviously designed for that.

Low CPU speed requiring clever programming tricks... no problem there either. I initially learned programming on a unit with a 1.5 Mhz CPU in 1983, and for most of the next 10 years never had a processor with more than 8Mhz. Assembly language was my friend. I think that a lot of modern programmers would wet the bed at night if they had to deal with the limitations 20-25 years ago.

Needless to say, programming on hardware as powerful as the DS would have been a dream come true back when I was learning, so the only real barrier to entry for me is convincing Nintendo that my game has merit enough to let me get ahold of a dev kit. Maybe if I am lucky my iPhone release and sales numbers will be good enough to help that along

--- ChronoSoft ---
Support your roguelikes! Play Rogue Touch today!
Spirit Hunter Mineko: Demons Reach --- Work in progress! Follow us on Twitter!