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Apparently professional studios don't want to associate with the app store

10-23-2010, 07:55 PM
#1
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 763
Apparently professional studios don't want to associate with the app store

And compare themselves to sly the amateur indie people in this scene:
http://wireless.ign.com/articles/113/1130156p1.html
10-23-2010, 09:43 PM
#2
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Germany & Tokyo
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirolak26 View Post
And compare themselves to sly the amateur indie people in this scene:
http://wireless.ign.com/articles/113/1130156p1.html

First itīs a Levi Buchanan article, so itīs taken with a grain of Salt anyway.

That said, this sound much like the Music industry whining about people who donīt buy their soulless shit anymore.
ok n-Space has few titles which not necessarily means they understand whatīs going on.

"People that use to buy many games every year now buy a few AAA titles, supplementing their need with games that are free or cost less than a pack of gum."
Maybe because usual $60 AAA title consists of 40% Quicktime Events 20% Cutscenes and max. 7 hours of playtime with very less replay value nowadays?

And what about MineCraft? Maybe the Game industry might use some fresh concepts?
The last $60 AAA title of value I saw was Fallout 3, and that is already some time ago. The world has changed since 2000 but some people / industries just donīt get it.

And the best thing will be when n-space makes a half-assed iOS game and then blames the users they donīt fork over the $$$$$$$.

And finally statements like that that effectivly decry the indie developers AND their customers just fear the fresh ideas that make you realize what snakeoil they sold you the whole years before.
I see more fresh ideas on the AppStore in a month than in a 2years in PC/Console games.

my HO.

going over the top as usual

TouchArcade Patreon - GameCenter: dyscoder -

10-23-2010, 10:36 PM
#3
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,079
Which professional studios... EA? RockStar? Konami? Sega? Harmonix? Namco? Square Enix? Capcom? id?

😈
10-23-2010, 10:55 PM
#4
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Germany & Tokyo
Posts: 1,101
Scott,
I agree with you.

I never would claim to own the truth alone. And sometimes I am closer to ranting than to analyzing,
I know .
And as sticktron stated a lot of companies do fine with the changes of internet and AppStore.

But for the production costs, it was the AAA game industries decision to put visuals over gameplay and they are now at the breaking point of the equation. It does not reckon anymore, yet still some/most AAA companies hold tight to this no matter what the cost, literally. And then they com complaining. Itīs not the consumers fault they fail.

And console game are MOSTLY hindered by the costs off SDKs, per license fees and draconic ruling of Sony, Nintendo and microsoft (being the most moderate) of what is allowed to be published.

Compared to this the Apple review Process is Anarchy and Free Love. THAT is what hinders consoles.
PSN and Nintendo Store are just shadows compared to this.

Plus the same "good games cost money" argument is going on since 2 decades now. Itīs true but as you say the as the profits have risen the games visuals so the the production costs. And complaining AAA companies
always put it like itīs the most recent discovery in rocket science. They better have to learn from the past.

TouchArcade Patreon - GameCenter: dyscoder -

Last edited by dyscode; 10-23-2010 at 11:27 PM.
10-23-2010, 11:55 PM
#5
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Germany & Tokyo
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottColbert View Post
. When 3dfx released [...] Once gamers got a taste of something non pixelated, it was all over.

I would never go back to my 2G Touch after using my 4G. Mostly for the performance boost, but it does look a lot better. However, as I've said far too many times, what good is a game if it's fantastic looking but plays like crap?

And rant away, it's good for the soul :P
3DFX
Yes, totally. There are some developments that change the whole game!
And you cannot go back behind that or if, it feels like a real loss of living quality.

2G/4G Mostly I cannot go back to my 2G because it now belongs to my wife now.
Yes the 4G, just by making games look better with the better LCD, is
amazing, even without Retina support.

Visuals over Gameplay
yeah Final Fantasy XIII as the latest evidence.

There was a statement from a Japanese game developer also concerned about FF XIII gameplay, like: since when became games something you watch?
(I cannot find the source right now, the article was on Escapists).

TouchArcade Patreon - GameCenter: dyscoder -
10-24-2010, 03:38 AM
#6
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottColbert View Post
...This idea that creativity is overflowing in the app store is grossly exaggerated....
I really discovered the depth, amount and creativity of PC indie gaming through my iPad, in term of game creation that means a lot through iphone games. That seems quite paradoxical and it seems make pointless playing on my iPad, better get back to my PC and start play (more) PC indie games... But not at all.

There's two arguments making the device unbeatable to play indie games:
  • The first point is rather obvious for the curious gamer avid to try a bit many games and stick to few only, the prices are just unstoppable. I don't say it's a viable economy, just that for a gamer it can't be beat.
  • The second point is rather perverse and is linked to communication. From any point you look at it, reviews on main sites covering the igames, forums like TA forums, App Store selections, all the main sources of information about igames have an heavy coverage of indie games. You won't find anything comparable on PC, in quantity you'll find much more but it's spread and this spreading broke the dynamism.
The reasons of this isn't that simple, I'd quote 3 possible causes:
  • A first point is certainly the physical weakness of the idevices. Most are handle devices involving many limits from game size to memory size and lower CPU and video card. Those multiple physical limits have multiple consequences, from embarrassing giants of the game industry used to make A to AAA games, to favorings indie games by making low budget games more on par with anything released on those devices.
  • The second point is the prices craziness there's around the app store. My point isn't to explain the reasons of this, but that it involves consequences building a favorable ground for indie gaming. The whole gaming industry don't know make low budget games. Only the indie approach seems roughly compatible to such low pricing if it is at all, and at least as soon as the dream is powerful enough or as soon as the lottery chance is appealing enough.
  • The third point is historical, the idevices are historically deeply linked to Mac. That means that sites are also deeply linked to Mac. And since many years, the Mac gaming isn't build by the gaming industry but a lot by indie. That means that there's an historical dynamic that build a web with strong links with Mac ie with many people quite aware of indie gaming values.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottColbert View Post
It's the same in any industry right now; music went through it, movies are going through it, books are going through it. To go digital or stay with physical copies. There's still far more money to be made with physical copies at this point; even taking into account rising shipping costs, the bad economy, the cost of making the copies etc.
This digital choice is mainly a problem of controlling the market. The digital doesn't suit the giant of the industries because they lost their relationship and influence on many people involved in physical copies, from stock, to exposure in shops.

The chance of Video Game Industry is that it happened much later than for Music and they are much better prepared and are warned that they won't be able to stop the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottColbert View Post
The biggest problem I see with iDevice apps is the app store itself. Aside from it being a mess to browse through, the length of time it takes to process, review and release apps-let alone updates-just won't cut it for much longer.
I see it the exact reverse, I won't be able to formulate a clear explanation, but it is a barrier against giants of the gaming industry, it tends generate an environment favoring indie games, Apple will hardly succeed learn how setup an impulse to change completely the direction to open this gaming Market to the standard Game industry. This means that Apple is bound to indies for some time because of this App Store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottColbert View Post
Frankly I haven't seen a fresh from either in ages, nor do I expect to. Not when the tried and true still sells so well.
Well, "in ages" seems means decades or at least a decade, and really I don't share at all that point of view. Myself there's been plenty fresh things by playing on my iPad, even if many come from PC. Here some quotes and I wonder what other games made them non fresh:
  • Spirit
  • Knight Defense
  • Galcon Fusion
  • Knights of the Phantom Castle
  • Ynth (or Beyond Ynth)
  • Rimelands
  • Tilt to Live
  • Somersault
  • Trundle
  • Aerox
  • Monster Feed
  • Inkies HD
  • Osmos
  • Dark Nebula 2
  • Let's Create Pottery
  • Jet Car Stunts
  • Dungeon Solitaire
  • Soosiz
  • Spider: The Secret of Bryce Manor
  • Topple 2
  • Modern Conflict
  • Chop Chop Soccer (HD)
  • Chop Chop Ninja
  • CocoNoid
  • Earth Defender
  • Shadow Runner
  • Ricochet Infinity
  • Master of Alchemy
  • Space Station: Frontier
  • Mirror's Edge
  • Doodle Sky (HD)
  • Circuloid
  • Breakspin
  • Reflexion
  • Meekoo
  • Bit.Trip Beat
  • Veggie Samurai (or Fruit Ninja)
  • MultiPong
  • Splash Duel
  • Chop Chop Tennis
  • Swipe Soccer
  • Fastar!
  • Everlands HD
  • Antistar: 3D Rising
  • Just 1 Level
  • Stick Golf (or Melon Golf)
  • Great Adventures
  • My Kingdom the the Princess
  • Juggle!

So all of that is just old blood for you? Well I suppose you could quote some old games that influenced very strongly some of them, but for all of them or most of them, I doubt a lot. Ok I'm not a specialist so I'm doing a guess.

But if we are looking from a larger point of view, ie multiple platforms and since many years then I'll have serious quotes to highlight that the 90's or the 80's could not have been more creative than have been the 00's.
10-24-2010, 09:03 AM
#7
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Vienna
Posts: 1,099
I donīt even know the developer "n-space", but they are obviously good in bawwing. Blaming pirates must have been gotten old, so now itīs the App Stores fault for a change? n-space, whoever you are, just go away. Youīll find an open door, i assure you.

Challenge me on Gamecenter: tblrsa
App-Echo - Your place for German iOS App and Game Reviews
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Last edited by tblrsa; 10-24-2010 at 09:07 AM.
10-24-2010, 10:16 AM
#8
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: the stars
Posts: 491
All I know is that the app-store is taking my money faster than console-games. Last year (2009) I bought seven games for my PS3. I have only purchased two PS3 games this year, Red Dead Redemption and Battlefield BC2.

However, on the iOS, i've purchased at least $200+ in apps. If the iphone games weren't cheap ($0.99 - $9.99), I probably wouldn't have purchased anything at all. The low price-point almost forces you to spend.

I'm not really sure I understand your thread, because it seems as though the big gaming monopolies are taking the iOS very seriously. Although, some indie-developers have blown the socks off of big companies with games like, "Space Miner" and "Pocket God." I fear that the big guys - with their large budget and all - will half-ass most games. After Battlefield iphone and Left4dead iphone come out, we'll see how serious Professional studios are about the app-store.
10-24-2010, 10:45 AM
#9
Quote:
Originally Posted by sticktron View Post
Which professional studios... EA? RockStar? Konami? Sega? Harmonix? Namco? Square Enix? Capcom? id?
^^agreed^^

LiamWUL Games Development
Gamecenter: walsh06
10-24-2010, 12:18 PM
#10
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 268
Qordobo,
I'd add a fourth bullet point to the three theories you postulated - that the very nature of the App Store (digital and not physical) means that indies can compete at the same distribution level as the "AAA" console developers. Also, from what I've seen so far on the App store there does not seem to be any real difference between indie developers and the major game developers regarding advertising on the App Store, and Apple seems to push awareness of new apps based on their actual quality and not simply who developed them - for the most part anyway.

This is really good thread. I myself have a long history with video and computer gaming, playing Atari 2600 and old arcade games back in the '70s and '80s, going to early 8 and 16 bit consoles, then to PCs. I even remember spending a crazy amount of money in '97 ($300) for the first 3dFX graphics card.

I found myself getting into indie PC games before I even had an interest in iDevices, from a cost, quality, and originality perspective, and I think a lot of the success of indie games on the PC comes from being able to have small games distributed over the internet.

In addition to cheaper price-points for their games, some indie developers have even started experimenting with a "pay what you want" model where - literally - you pay even as little as a penny for their games, the idea being that you are paying what you will for a game based on your perceived value, and that if enough other consumers value a game or developer as highly as you do then you will all donate more money to that developer to continue making highly quality games.

I actually find it to be a good thing if the big game developers are scared. That is exactly what is needed in the entire computer/video games industry - a shakeup. I moved away from most PC games from major developers years ago due to the feeling that I was paying way too much money for overproduced crap with too many bugs, too much reliance on the "greatest and latest" hardware, and the icing on that cake was finding myself bored with the gameplay in just an hour or two (or less).