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The Truth as I see the Market

11-11-2010, 05:28 PM
#1
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Where dreams become reality
Posts: 258
The Truth as I see the Market

I have done research and my homework . I have read blog after blog and post after post. But in the developer forum I see a bit of negativity that I feel isnt helpful . Please read before responding.

1) We are all here to do the same thing . Make a fun game that people will like and enjoy. Hopefully we get lucky!!!! and make some money.

2) We are supposed to be networking and helping each other out , thats my assumption.

Now to the heart of the matter . I see some developers telling each other ," oh your game doesnt look that interesting " " oh you got fake reviews " " you game isnt as good as what is already up there " " your graphics suck "

This makes no sense to me , I thought we supposed to be helping each other?
Some of the comments sound like jealosy , and some by trolls .

" your graphics suck"

I bet many people told lima sky that doodle jump graphics suck . It didnt suck it was just a different style , but now everyone will say oh they are master with thier choice of graphics. So dont diss the next person graphics instead just tell them to tighten up , just keep it positive!!!!

" oh you got fake reviews "

If people like someones game , they give it an honest review . Just because the game hasnt become famous yet , doesnt mean the reviews are fake . So when they become famous , they will never go back to help out the person who say oh your reviews are fake. Stop the jealously !!!

" your game doesnt look interesting" " its not as good as whats up thier"

How can you judge a game and say it isnt good . People again are too funny , because if the game blows up , your going to look stupid. Everyone has different styles , so please just show some respect.

" your game is a rip off "

I hate when I see people using the word ripoff and they dont know what it means. People can have similar games and say oh he copied off of doodle jump . So if someone makes a similar game , it means they ripped it off. No it means they have new ideas to make a game better. Use common sense please when talking.


On the last note I hope to have a fun time here and make friends . Share links and help each other promote games . We are all trying to be successful , so lets work together . As for people who are negative , I never get into a verbal fight . I just explain myself . If you have intentions of starting with me instead of intelligent talk , just know I wont fight , but I will report on site to Moderators. I hope to meet a few good friend here at Toucharcade. Thankyou for taking the time to read this!!!
11-11-2010, 05:39 PM
#2
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Where you dont live
Posts: 1,662
Dude you are tottaly right i hate all those trollers who have nothing better to do than to critize games that with a little bit of work could be the next big thing!!!

11-11-2010, 05:40 PM
#3
Joined: May 2009
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Posts: 464
Haha sounds like you're talking about a certain Mr. Ugly who has frequented these forums of late! I totally agree with you, there is no need for negativity in these forums and kudos for standing up and saying something about it. On the plus side there are only a few bad seeds who display this sort of behaviour, everyone else is really great

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Last edited by PixelthisMike; 11-11-2010 at 07:07 PM.
11-11-2010, 06:06 PM
#4
Joined: Feb 1983
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 1,268,692
You'll find that most (all?) of the people making these comments aren't developers, but kids just frequenting the developer forums. Join the developer user group, and you'll find the tone substantially different in the private forum once you remove everyone who doesn't actually make games.
11-11-2010, 06:42 PM
#5
I agree the way some of those comments are written can come across horribly. However, sometimes I see some negative comments that I do in fact agree with. Graphics for example are not ALL subjective. Some games really look bad.

People often come here asking for advice... "Why did my game not sell well? What do you think of my game? Why does no one seem to like my game?" You honestly can't do that and expect to get a flood of comments just saying how great your game looks and how you can do it! If a developer doesn't want honest feedback, they probably shouldn't have asked for it. Sugar coating opinions does no one any good... In fact, criticism is the best way to make something better. And as a developer it is an important quality to be able to discern genuine complaints and criticisms vs. subjective opinions, and then appropriately address them. Also -- while it by no means gives anyone a right to be rude -- a developer should probably get used to brushing off LOTS of ridiculous, bias, subjective complaints

Again, the way some of the comments are made are definitely rude and wrong -- I agree -- but the underlying message I often think is really just some tough, necessary "love."

Also I agree when that its rude when people post their opinions like that when someone hasn't asked for them, or it has not place in the current discussion. Then yes, in those cases they are just out of place and annoying.

Last edited by Foursaken_Media; 11-11-2010 at 06:45 PM.
11-11-2010, 07:46 PM
#6
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,869
I agree, it is actually refreshing to get a little bit of the harsh feedback in some ways. It's of no use to anyone for devs to come in here and have our work fawned over "oh it's great, it's great" regardless of what is actually being shown. At the same time, being told "your work is garbage and I'd rather be buried alive than ever have to look at such garbage for even a second longer" can be a bit overbearing.

I think we've reached a point where people are starting to get jaded by the constant flow of noob devs on here "ohh, look at my work, I was able to get graphics to display on the screen" and this is sort of a response to that.

Overall I think most people behave fairly respectfully, so it's not really an issue to get too worked up over. I am thankful for this forum and the people who do actually take the time and energy to (honestly) critique things and help one another out, we are all in this together after all!
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11-11-2010, 08:32 PM
#7
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by PixelthisMike View Post
Haha sounds like you're talking about a certain Mr. Ugly who has frequented these forums of late! I totally agree with you, there is no need for negativity in these forums and kudos for standing up and saying something about it. On the plus side there are only a few bad seeds who display this sort of behaviour, everyone else is really great

well the problem is mr. ugly is no sugar coater.. i speak my mind, if i think something is crap i tell you soo.. thats called being honest.. no its not polite.. its not nice.. its not comforting.. but its more or less the truth. at least my point of view.. you don't like its ok.. you are entitled to your opinion.. i am to mine..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Krehol Games;
1) We are all here to do the same thing . Make a fun game that people will like and enjoy. Hopefully we get lucky!!!! and make some money.
No we are not.. there alot of different kinds of developers in the app store.. some do it as a hobby, some do it as a job, some try to get rich.. others just to pay their bills..

for some this is serious business and they are not interested into luck, they are interested into money.

and you know there is no money to be made because everything has to be free if you ask a customer.


Quote:
2) We are supposed to be networking and helping each other out , thats my assumption.
are we? why? are we is this a socialistic 70th hippie parrade? actualy if you are a developer , then we are enemies. you take away my customers i take away yours.. seriously..

everyone will find help somewhere somehow if he is worth the help in the eyes from the supporter.. so sometimes one gets help sometimes not..



Quote:
Now to the heart of the matter . I see some developers telling each other ," oh your game doesnt look that interesting " " oh you got fake reviews " " you game isnt as good as what is already up there " " your graphics suck "
well did you got fake reviews? be honest.. usualy they are if you have like 5 and all are 5 stars..

you are so deep down the charts it feels a bit wonky to have just a handfull of customers and all think this product is the best ever..

so its not faar fetched to think thoose are fake review.. you said you did your homework.. so you would agree that if you see someone elses game with such ratings, such charts.. that one might think that.


Quote:
This makes no sense to me , I thought we supposed to be helping each other?
why are we supposed todo so? telling someone not to post fake reviews is help.. its a valid positive suggestion. "don't crap on yourself".

at least they could got some variety.. one 5 stars one 4 one 3.. a bit bad press some good.. but 5x5starts rating.. hard to sell


Quote:
Some of the comments sound like jealosy , and some by trolls .
lol.. this is funny.. no one is jealous about your product.. if you think so you are delusional


[QUOTE]
" your graphics suck"

I bet many people told lima sky that doodle jump graphics suck . It didnt suck it was just a different style , but now everyone will say oh they are master with thier choice of graphics. So dont diss the next person graphics instead just tell them to tighten up , just keep it positive!!!!
[QUOTE]

why keep it positive.. if someone tells you the gfx is crap and the next one tells you.. its not so good can you change it.. you get twice the same message.. your gfx sucks.. one time nice and one time not.. so what..

but it still boild down to the same feedback.. they don't like youre gfx.



Quote:
" oh you got fake reviews "

If people like someones game , they give it an honest review . Just because the game hasnt become famous yet , doesnt mean the reviews are fake . So when they become famous , they will never go back to help out the person who say oh your reviews are fake. Stop the jealously !!!

i covered that up there already.. thoose might be valid reviews.. but in general on the appstore they are not.

so one adds up 1+1=2 ... but sometimes it can be 3.. so if you are a 3.. well then awesome that your ugly looking game got 5x5 stars.. more power to you!



Quote:
" your game doesnt look interesting" " its not as good as whats up thier"

How can you judge a game and say it isnt good . People again are too funny , because if the game blows up , your going to look stupid. Everyone has different styles , so please just show some respect.
well its an opinion.. if someone thinks its not interesting he has to shut up?
why because you only like to hear positive crap about your game?

in all my professional life i always hated it if people stated sugar coating something.. in general i am not interested into positive feedback.. why should i .. positive is unimportant.. the negative one is the problem..
this is what you have to fix and so you listen to the crap talk and not the sweet talk..
if someone tells you your game is good is doesnt help your game.. just your ego and your ego should be in the dance anyway..

but if someone says bad things you should listen because you could take this information and make youre actual product better.

sweet talk is a waste of time and money.. get to the point and get it done.



Quote:
" your game is a rip off "

I hate when I see people using the word ripoff and they dont know what it means. People can have similar games and say oh he copied off of doodle jump . So if someone makes a similar game , it means they ripped it off. No it means they have new ideas to make a game better. Use common sense please when talking.

still a rip off no? its ok.. everyone copies everyone.. so what .. doodle jump is a ripoff from papi jump so what.. papi jump creators didnt become millionars.. the ripp offer became one.. so what?

its feedback.. nothing more.. if you can't take negative feedback crawl back under your stone and never come back.. because in real life there will always be someone who says something bad to you, your work, your product or your wife! if he craps on your wife smack him.. anything else.. well its part of "free speech"



Quote:
On the last note I hope to have a fun time here and make friends . Share links and help each other promote games . We are all trying to be successful , so lets work together . As for people who are negative , I never get into a verbal fight . I just explain myself . If you have intentions of starting with me instead of intelligent talk , just know I wont fight , but I will report on site to Moderators. I hope to meet a few good friend here at Toucharcade. Thankyou for taking the time to read this!!!

so you rather run to momy if someone say your game is a ripp off, the gfx is ugly and you are a copy cat?

well i don't know its pretty harmless in this part of the forum.. try the other more frequented ones.. people moan about everything all the time.. even if it doesnt make sense.. but thats the way it is.. if you have nothing to say in real life you have to be more vocal on the internet..


anyway.. i wish you good luck with your app, even if other peope don't like it or like it.. it doesnt matter.. if you think you did a good job you should be satisfied with yourself.. then the opinons of other doesnt bother you.. and if you are developing for quite some time you will learn to keep a distance between yourself and your work..

if someone says your game is ****ing shit crap doodle stool.. it doesn't mean you as a person are.. this is a very important lesson one should learn..

so novel no.2 finished..
11-11-2010, 08:37 PM
#8
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodapp View Post
You'll find that most (all?) of the people making these comments aren't developers, but kids just frequenting the developer forums. Join the developer user group, and you'll find the tone substantially different in the private forum once you remove everyone who doesn't actually make games.
hah.. well i think "no tone" fits more to the private forum..

but on the other hands.. thats pretty normal.. thoose guys are working on their project..

hmm what am i doing here.. ahh yes.. waiting for the awfull slow upload to itc to finish up.. jeez is it slow..
11-11-2010, 09:16 PM
#9
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,869
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.Ugly View Post
are we? why? are we is this a socialistic 70th hippie parrade? actualy if you are a developer , then we are enemies. you take away my customers i take away yours.. seriously..
well this much I will take you to task for. I feel like there is such a strong sense of camaraderie in independent development, all the way down the line. Yeah, at the end of the day we are competing with one another for the same dollars, but time and again I have seen so many folks helping spread the word for one another, offering advice on every stage of development (coding, marketing, style of art) - even to the point where devs have offered to help get in there and physically work to get a project finished! It's pretty encouraging, and it also gives one a palpable sense that others in the community appreciate the effort.
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11-11-2010, 09:16 PM
#10
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 515
Krehol Games - thanks for your post, I've been having the same feeling for the past few days, mostly due to Mr Ugly spreading his bile in every thread that I've read.