Support our Sponsors:

Go Back   Touch Arcade > Developer Discussion > Public Game Developers Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-04-2011, 03:44 PM
araczynski araczynski is offline
Senior Member
iPad (4th Gen), iOS 6.x
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: omaha, ne
Posts: 1,384
Default Your thoughts on a mechanic to download retina/ipad portions of games seperately.

Not sure if this is a pipe dream, but as I'm sitting here with a full 64gb ipad, still buying games and just adding them to my 'download later' list, I am wondering if it wouldn't be smarter to perhaps have an a 'barebone' iphone app, with the retina/ipad/universal parts being an optional download for those with devices that can use it.

So for example, i download "BoomBoomPow" onto my iPad, which has the resources (graphics) for a pre retina iphone/ipod. Lets say its a 19.5mb file.

Lets also say it is a universal app, so when i load it, i see in the options that i can download additional resources (say 30 more mb) to use it on my ipad with all the eye candy. I see that i have room, and choose to do so.

I then put that barebones app onto my 3rd gen ipod, 30mb saved.

Then say some other guy puts the barebones on his retina device, and sees the option to download retina resources, say 30mb, boom, he's got the retina version of the app, without having to waste say 30mb more on the ipad resources (for a universal build).

Would this work with the current mechanics?

I just cringe when i see iphone/ipod app updates that feature 'added retina' among bug fixes.

Anymore, I even am disliking universal builds for this very reason.

I know the Apple platform isn't about options, but sometimes I wish they would just get out of the "640K ought to be enough for anybody" mindset.

Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-04-2011, 09:46 PM
WickedAwesome WickedAwesome is offline
Member
iPhone 3GS, OS 4.x
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 41
Default GoGoGadget

Interesting.

My first experience with something like this was the Inspector Gadget game by XMG where you can upgrade to Retina if you have enough points. When you choose to upgrade it appears to download the content without leaving the actual game.

M@
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-05-2011, 01:10 AM
DemonJim's Avatar
DemonJim DemonJim is offline
Developer
iPad (3rd Gen), iOS 7.x
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 390
Default

It is certainly possible and is a great idea, but what should the game do if you don't have an Internet connection when you actually run the game [on a device requiring download of the hires content]; or if there is Internet, what if there isn't space on the device to store the extra content; or your server goes down? Should the game fallback to the low-res stuff, or give an error and quit? Either way you're going to have unhappy customers and bad reviews.

It is a system that ideally needs official support from Apple - ie. the extra content could be downloaded and stored in your iTunes library (resolving the issues mentioned above), and the game can only be Sync'd onto a device when iTunes has the extra content required for that device.

So rather than just a single .app bundle (with all assets inside) as it is now, all apps could follow a data structure something like this:

TheAppItselfAndNormalData.app
\_ iPhoneRetinaAssets.bundle
\_ iPadAssets.bundle
\_ iPadRetinaAssets.bundle [added later for the retina iPad 3 ]

.. where extra bundle[s] are only downloaded if iTunes wants to sync to that type of device.

Also it could be handled automatically by UIKit, so the relevant assets are used rather than looking for "@2x" versions of everything in the regular bundle.

This also allows the App Reviewers to review all in-game assets, whereas having downloadable assets from any-old-server they aren't able to check them for conformity in the review process. So while it may be possible to have a system like this currently, if it started to become common and Apple caught on then the practice would soon be added to the list of things you can't do. Of course if Apple went with the sub-bundle idea above then everyone's 'appy.

Last edited by DemonJim; 03-05-2011 at 01:16 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-05-2011, 01:35 AM
JindoFox JindoFox is offline
Senior Member
iPhone 5s, iOS 7.x
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 353
Default

I wouldn't mind having the option to drop the heavy parts of Gameloft games, which I suspect are mostly full motion video.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-07-2011, 11:40 PM
araczynski araczynski is offline
Senior Member
iPad (4th Gen), iOS 6.x
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: omaha, ne
Posts: 1,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonJim View Post
It is certainly possible and is a great idea, but what should the game do if you don't have an Internet connection when you actually run the game [on a device requiring download of the hires content]; or if there is Internet, what if there isn't space on the device to store the extra content; or your server goes down? Should the game fallback to the low-res stuff, or give an error and quit? Either way you're going to have unhappy customers and bad reviews.

It is a system that ideally needs official support from Apple - ie. the extra content could be downloaded and stored in your iTunes library (resolving the issues mentioned above), and the game can only be Sync'd onto a device when iTunes has the extra content required for that device.

So rather than just a single .app bundle (with all assets inside) as it is now, all apps could follow a data structure something like this:

TheAppItselfAndNormalData.app
\_ iPhoneRetinaAssets.bundle
\_ iPadAssets.bundle
\_ iPadRetinaAssets.bundle [added later for the retina iPad 3 ]

.. where extra bundle[s] are only downloaded if iTunes wants to sync to that type of device.

Also it could be handled automatically by UIKit, so the relevant assets are used rather than looking for "@2x" versions of everything in the regular bundle.

This also allows the App Reviewers to review all in-game assets, whereas having downloadable assets from any-old-server they aren't able to check them for conformity in the review process. So while it may be possible to have a system like this currently, if it started to become common and Apple caught on then the practice would soon be added to the list of things you can't do. Of course if Apple went with the sub-bundle idea above then everyone's 'appy.
I was thinking that since apple already allows for downloadable content, i'm not sure why they wouldn't allow for the content to be one of 3 different graphics packs (retina/ipad/ipadretina) for free, or then again, could be a nominal fee for the say ipad/ipadretina? since devs already seem to charge a slight premium for ipad stuff, which i'm 'ok' with, since i'd much prefer ipad gaming to retina gaming any day.

ideally the itunes/app download system would be smart enough to handle the initial download to be appropriate for the device downloading it. I mean if i use my ipad to get into the app store, and i download a game, there's no reason for the app store to send me retina junk when i'm getting it on the ipad, and viceaversa, when someone's downloading for the retina, no reason for it to send the ipad junk. and of course if i'm getting it for my older ipod, don't waste my space with either pack.

downloading directly to itunes could contain all packages, when you sync, it syncs only the appropriate parts for the device doing the syncing, which of course would require itunes to be modified...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-08-2011, 06:05 PM
theatrus theatrus is offline
Junior Member
iPad, OS 4.x
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4
Default

Ideally this should be handled by the app store. I would find it annoying to buy an iPad game, have it download, launch it, and then have it download *again* to actually play at iPad resolution.

If the app store could deliver specialized "universal" bundles with non HD assets stripped (or HD assets stripped, whatever it may be) that would be ideal.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-08-2011, 09:51 PM
fiveohthree fiveohthree is offline
Senior Member
iPhone 4, OS 4.x
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 168
Default

correct me if i'm wrong, but i remember the free version of fragger having this feature.

i think this method of downloading high res graphics later is pretty great and can lower the size of a file to less than 20 mb for 3G impulse downloading but i think the downside is that the dev has to host the server which houses the DLC. for an indie dev this might not be the best option as it will push up your costs.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-09-2011, 12:22 AM
araczynski araczynski is offline
Senior Member
iPad (4th Gen), iOS 6.x
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: omaha, ne
Posts: 1,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theatrus View Post
Ideally this should be handled by the app store. I would find it annoying to buy an iPad game, have it download, launch it, and then have it download *again* to actually play at iPad resolution.

If the app store could deliver specialized "universal" bundles with non HD assets stripped (or HD assets stripped, whatever it may be) that would be ideal.
that's what i mean though, when downloading with itunes, you'd download the whole bundle, when syncing, only the appropriate parts would be synced. when downloading directly with the ipad from the app store, i can't see why the app store wouldn't be smart enough to see that an ipad is getting the univeral file, so skip the retina portion.

fiveohthree makes a good point though, about the dev having to host these files, which they shouldn't have to, all the data is already in the itunes store. itunes would just have to be made smart and sense which files to send, the dev shouldn't have anything to do with anything after putting the appropiate files into the appropriate folders like was mentioned above.

the dev does the initial setup/sorting, itunes handles the appropriate downloading, users save space.

can't imagine that the setup/sorting checking couldn't be a required automated step during an app submission to apple.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:28 AM
mr.Ugly's Avatar
mr.Ugly mr.Ugly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by araczynski View Post
that's what i mean though, when downloading with itunes, you'd download the whole bundle, when syncing, only the appropriate parts would be synced. when downloading directly with the ipad from the app store, i can't see why the app store wouldn't be smart enough to see that an ipad is getting the univeral file, so skip the retina portion.

fiveohthree makes a good point though, about the dev having to host these files, which they shouldn't have to, all the data is already in the itunes store. itunes would just have to be made smart and sense which files to send, the dev shouldn't have anything to do with anything after putting the appropiate files into the appropriate folders like was mentioned above.

the dev does the initial setup/sorting, itunes handles the appropriate downloading, users save space.

can't imagine that the setup/sorting checking couldn't be a required automated step during an app submission to apple.
Itunes should handle this? And how so exactly? In an current universal build we dont have 3 images of everything for sd,ret&ipad. If some assets can be shared it will be to cut down size and save time creating and handling them.

If you want to keep your app small and see that it goes over the limit make it non universal , if the iphone version only is still to big, compress stuff.
Still to big, well then remove some.

You can still offer retina assetts as a seperate after buy download, but you have the same limitations as with Iap, it can only be made via the app directly on the device.

At the end i doubt apple will ever go there offering some atomatism, thats tons of work, millions of dollars of engineering and later very complex app testing, for a few stubborn customers who need to buy the smallest device and/or always need to carry all their games with them.. As if they play everything at once.

Peple moan when its a non univesal because they need to pay twice and people moan because its an universal but they dont care for other devices..
Its always the same. You cant make everyone happy, neither should you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:53 AM
Rogue's Avatar
Rogue Rogue is offline
Member
iPad 2, iOS 5.x
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.Ugly View Post
Itunes should handle this? And how so exactly? In an current universal build we dont have 3 images of everything for sd,ret&ipad. If some assets can be shared it will be to cut down size and save time creating and handling them.

If you want to keep your app small and see that it goes over the limit make it non universal , if the iphone version only is still to big, compress stuff.
Still to big, well then remove some.

You can still offer retina assetts as a seperate after buy download, but you have the same limitations as with Iap, it can only be made via the app directly on the device.

At the end i doubt apple will ever go there offering some atomatism, thats tons of work, millions of dollars of engineering and later very complex app testing, for a few stubborn customers who need to buy the smallest device and/or always need to carry all their games with them.. As if they play everything at once.

Peple moan when its a non univesal because they need to pay twice and people moan because its an universal but they dont care for other devices..
Its always the same. You cant make everyone happy, neither should you.
I agree with Mr Ugly. To be honest, it is getting difficult enough to support multiple devices. The current system works great and lowers workload as much as it can. Having resource sets seperated would be nightmarish. For example: I use retina designed graphics for my ipad menus but only use regular iphone assetts for ipad gameplay. That would be messy for a resource set.

A benifit of having the ability to create a universal app is that if you download it and have it in itunes you can easily sync it to every device you have an its always the same app. I like that. I think there are far more benifits, both for developers and customers, to having one app with a unified resource set.
Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2012, TouchArcade.com, LLC.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2008 - 2011, TouchArcade.com. Privacy Policy / DMCA Copyright Agent