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  #1  
Old 05-26-2013, 04:15 PM
GKDAIR GKDAIR is offline
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Default Developers need to take the retro market and run with it.

I realize not everyone will have the same taste as me, but I honestly prefer older games to newer ones. I'd rather play an old school final fantasy game than a newer one, I'd rather play something like Mega Man than Halo or something.

I could go into excruciatingly long detail about why I think modern games suck, but I won't. But I do game a lot on my ipad, and here are some thoughts.

Developers just need to stop with 3D games. Virtual buttons just do not work, they will never feel comfortable. The strength in the ipad comes from swipes and taps, so games need to focus and put their strength on this.

Take Final Fantasy 4. You move the virtual d-pad and can press anywhere on the screen to do so, and you tap the screen to issue commands and talk to people. That's it.

Now take something like Modern Combat 4 where the entire game is covered in virtual buttons that don't move. You can customize the location of where these buttons are, but you can't tap anywhere to reload for example. I have spent literally hours in the menus of games like Modern Combat trying to find a comfortable playing position, and it just doesn't work. Period.

A lot of games on the App Store are retro remakes, or are in the same style of retro games from yesteryear. Mage Gauntlet for example, I think it's the name. Again, simple virtual d-pad and only a couple of virtual buttons I believe. Not hard to control at all.

Then you've got games like Slayer and Punch Quest. These are simple controlling games, simple to learn, hard to master. 3D games seem to reverse that on the App Store, and in gaming in general. Hard to learn, easy to master.

Developers need to focus on the strengths of the smart phone. Simple swipes and gestures should be able to control your entire game, quit making games that practically need a controller to go with them. If your game cannot be entirely controlled by just some swipes and one or two virtual buttons you are doing it wrong. That's why these endless runners and angry birds sell so well, that's the secret to IOS gaming.

Back in the day, games were no different than Angry Birds. They were something you played for 10-15 minutes while waiting to leave or something you would play on a bus. Developers need to capitalize on that. I'm not asking for remakes of old games, but I'm asking for games to be designed in that style. You had plenty of games that were fun and challenging and were pick up and play, heck the fact we still don't have a Castlevania game (and not that puzzle game) on the App Store bothers me.


In short, focus on the strengths of a touch screen, instead of trying to put a controller on a screen. I play on an Ipad 3, My hands are not big enough to move up and down the ipad as quickly as these games demand. Too many virtual buttons, leave that mess on a controller.

Before anyone asks I'm 21 and I've been playing games since I could hold a controller. I'm not some old grandpa who doesn't understand what an Xbox controller is.
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2013, 04:38 PM
SimianSquared SimianSquared is offline
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We are moving out of the Retro market for precisely the reasons you champion it. It is flooded with indies and some are pretty terrible. What with unity now being free for all, we're going to see a lot of crap heading your way.

Should encourage developers to try new things, not stay with retro, which is a specific niche taste as well. Not everyone likes retro.

Quote:
Back in the day, games were no different than Angry Birds. They were something you played for 10-15 minutes while waiting to leave or something you would play on a bus.
Um, no. Retro games are hard as nails and will make you cry. The modern version of retro is The Other Brothers, which makes people seethe and bleed from their gums in difficulty level. We're having dumb that down for the next update.

And, I think retro is two things: 1. some developers choose it because it's plain cheaper and faster to make. 2. Others choose it as a style choice...

The fact is 9 out of 10 games would look nicer if they weren't retro, which means for that remaining 1 in 10, it's a style choice (for example sword and sworcery).

Last edited by SimianSquared; 05-26-2013 at 04:42 PM..
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2013, 04:44 PM
mutantchameleon mutantchameleon is offline
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I am someone who loves retro looking games, but I understand that it is a niche market. Something about sharp looking cartoon-y games repulse me. But I care more about graphics. I have to agree with some of what was said, I think the best ios game is Beans Quest and it was controlled by nothing but taps, pure genius in the way it played out!!
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  #4  
Old 05-26-2013, 04:59 PM
dariusjr98 dariusjr98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimianSquared View Post
Retro games are hard as nails and will make you cry. The modern version of retro is The Other Brothers, which makes people seethe and bleed from their gums in difficulty level.
Is this little part of your post really necessary? It makes you look bad.
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  #5  
Old 05-26-2013, 05:29 PM
Thaumite Thaumite is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimianSquared View Post
We are moving out of the Retro market for precisely the reasons you champion it. It is flooded with indies and some are pretty terrible. What with unity now being free for all, we're going to see a lot of crap heading your way.

Should encourage developers to try new things, not stay with retro, which is a specific niche taste as well. Not everyone likes retro.

Um, no. Retro games are hard as nails and will make you cry. The modern version of retro is The Other Brothers, which makes people seethe and bleed from their gums in difficulty level. We're having dumb that down for the next update.

And, I think retro is two things: 1. some developers choose it because it's plain cheaper and faster to make. 2. Others choose it as a style choice...

The fact is 9 out of 10 games would look nicer if they weren't retro, which means for that remaining 1 in 10, it's a style choice (for example sword and sworcery).
I liked you before "The modern version of retro is at The Other Brothers"
Uninstalled. That is like saying your games are the best and everyone else sucks.
In my opinion, Rico is the best retro game.
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  #6  
Old 05-26-2013, 05:33 PM
saansilt saansilt is offline
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Dude, pixel graphics get tiring.
I prefer a 3D world to play in and explore.
It allows so much.
Comparing retro to Angry birds?
Contra wasn't 15 minutes.
Old games weren't easy, and looking back they weren't well programmed. Yeah they ran. But timing vs. controls, bullets swarming the screen, one hit deaths and unfair odds were just ways to frustrate the player.
Nowadays fairness allows games to be difficult without being cheap.
Pixel graphis are all around the appstore.
Take a minute to search.

I prefer 3D because it can do more. Look at gameloft. Look at the v-stick system. So many other games use it. Heck, I can play UMK3 perfect tower. It can work and it has worked. iOS gaming needs to move on.
Look at the vast worlds on iOS. Aralon. Shadowlands. Vice city. Rio, Miami, Gotham.
Look at games like Archetype, Ayden, carnivores, heck even Xenome.
3D can deliver, has delivered, and will deliver.
Not everyone needs to go retro.
Seeing good 3D games on iOS is a good thing.
Seeing more coming is better. It siginfies that we can have more of the deep experiances. That is the sign of an evolving gaming platform.
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  #7  
Old 05-26-2013, 06:21 PM
GKDAIR GKDAIR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saansilt View Post
Dude, pixel graphics get tiring.
I prefer a 3D world to play in and explore.
It allows so much.
Comparing retro to Angry birds?
Contra wasn't 15 minutes.
Old games weren't easy, and looking back they weren't well programmed. Yeah they ran. But timing vs. controls, bullets swarming the screen, one hit deaths and unfair odds were just ways to frustrate the player.
Nowadays fairness allows games to be difficult without being cheap.
Pixel graphis are all around the appstore.
Take a minute to search.

I prefer 3D because it can do more. Look at gameloft. Look at the v-stick system. So many other games use it. Heck, I can play UMK3 perfect tower. It can work and it has worked. iOS gaming needs to move on.
Look at the vast worlds on iOS. Aralon. Shadowlands. Vice city. Rio, Miami, Gotham.
Look at games like Archetype, Ayden, carnivores, heck even Xenome.
3D can deliver, has delivered, and will deliver.
Not everyone needs to go retro.
Seeing good 3D games on iOS is a good thing.
Seeing more coming is better. It siginfies that we can have more of the deep experiances. That is the sign of an evolving gaming platform.
Not talking about the ports, but all of those IOS originals are shoddy beta work compared to the ports you can find in the same genre.

Rio absolutely sucks, period. Why on earth anybody bothers playing that game amazes me. Vice City is 20 times the game Rio is in every department, including control.

Aralon is probably the best IOS original rpg on the market, but again ports of older games simply blow it away, like the Final Fantasy games. Ravensword is horrible, and I don't get how they pretty much downgraded in every aspect from Aralon.

I'm not saying games need to be in 2D and have pixel graphics, I'm saying they need to adopt that style of game. Simple gestures and maybe a few virtual buttons. Gameloft goes overboard with it.

I enjoy 3D worlds as much as the next guy, but it's pretty well known that 3D doesn't age nearly as well as 2D does. 2D is pretty much timeless IMO. Castlevania on NES still looks great, whereas Castlevania on the N64 looks like crap. Just because the technology is more powerful does not mean the games look better. Pixel Graphics can also look like crap, if the developer has no concept of a color wheel pixel games can look downright awful.

You don't have to use 2D to fit the same style as retro, but most people do.


What doesn't work on an IOS is a virtual controller, and developers need to quit trying to make it work. Simple games like Angry Birds and Cut The Rope are what drive sales, and they are also pretty good games. But there's also very deep and very complex games that also use pretty simple setups like Final Fantasy or Horn even to some degree. Developers need to rely on the strengths of the touch screen. If your game cannot work with more than just a few swipes and a virtual button or two, you've done it wrong and need to try again.

Use some of the things like Pinch to Zoom to take away buttons clogging up the screen, I don't know if you can do that in Modern Combat, but there's already one button gone from the dozens that are on the screen.

I'm just saying back in the day we had great games that only needed 2 buttons to play. I mean imagine if an Xbox controller was just a solid square with buttons on it, now try to play Halo. It's uncomfortable, right? That's exactly my point. We should be playing shooters that only need a few swipes and taps to play, not 45 on screen virtual buttons that will not work sometimes they are tapped. And statistically speaking yes, there is a chance a virtual button will not work when tapped.
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2013, 06:22 PM
zzandreezz zzandreezz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saansilt View Post
Dude, pixel graphics get tiring.
I prefer a 3D world to play in and explore.
It allows so much.
Comparing retro to Angry birds?
Contra wasn't 15 minutes.
Old games weren't easy, and looking back they weren't well programmed. Yeah they ran. But timing vs. controls, bullets swarming the screen, one hit deaths and unfair odds were just ways to frustrate the player.
Nowadays fairness allows games to be difficult without being cheap.
Pixel graphis are all around the appstore.
Take a minute to search.

I prefer 3D because it can do more. Look at gameloft. Look at the v-stick system. So many other games use it. Heck, I can play UMK3 perfect tower. It can work and it has worked. iOS gaming needs to move on.
Look at the vast worlds on iOS. Aralon. Shadowlands. Vice city. Rio, Miami, Gotham.
Look at games like Archetype, Ayden, carnivores, heck even Xenome.
3D can deliver, has delivered, and will deliver.
Not everyone needs to go retro.
Seeing good 3D games on iOS is a good thing.
Seeing more coming is better. It siginfies that we can have more of the deep experiances. That is the sign of an evolving gaming platform.
This. Everyone want the Vice City in GTA or the world of Ravensword in their mobile device. Playing 3D games feels like living in it's own world. Both retro and 3D modern games have their own advantages/ disadvantages.
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:02 PM
MidianGTX MidianGTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dariusjr98 View Post
Is this little part of your post really necessary? It makes you look bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaumite View Post
I liked you before "The modern version of retro is at The Other Brothers"
Uninstalled. That is like saying your games are the best and everyone else sucks.
He was talking about game difficulty, not saying his game is the best, although if he did you'd have to be crazy to argue against him considering it's his job to promote his own products. That's how you sell things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saansilt View Post
I prefer 3D because it can do more. Look at gameloft.
Don't say that, you'll put people off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saansilt View Post
Look at the vast worlds on iOS. Aralon. Shadowlands. Vice city. Rio, Miami, Gotham.
Look at games like Archetype, Ayden, carnivores, heck even Xenome.
3D can deliver, has delivered, and will deliver.
To be honest, I'd list a lot of those games as reasons why 3D games on iOS are so disappointing. Some of them barely meet PSX standards. This is 2013 and with a powerful machine you can create some absolutely amazing worlds, but attempting it on iOS always feels like a step back. At least when you're creating a retro game on iOS it's possible to get it exactly right, but for almost every 3D game it's more a case of "Well, this is as good as the platform can handle... it'll do".
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:33 PM
laxking97 laxking97 is offline
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Location: Utah
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