Nameless is much stronger on day 1, so it will be much easier to go into new difficulties. I tried swapping back to Mr Blade main to try some different combinations and I got creamed at my current difficulty.
How much stronger is Love than Eye? I am considering unlocking Love as a '7th inning swap' for Mr. Eye, or maybe even running both. When I stall out it seems to be from crowds a good bit of the time. Then again, I'm having doubts that any mercenary does enough damage in the late difficulties to even care about anything but their party buffs...
I'm feeling pretty good about replacing eye with slime. I like that they having slime and wraith, they both benefit from the hell store's bonuses to fireball and flame lance. It occurred to me that If I ran with the Ogre and Orc—not only do they have a lot of complementary skills with rage but they would also both benefit from the huge weapon bonus in hell store—which is really good bang for your buck. Their combo would make for even better use of the flame dungeon. I'm just finding that...since I'm not really pushing for day 1200 anymore because its kind of a waste of time to go past 1000, I don't really need the mass damage that Love does, (or the anti-mutant? This is my first run without a mutant), so maybe I don't need her (scoring me 200 more hellstones), and can use Blade or Nameless instead...I'll have to save up some stones/cloudsave and try switching between the two, and see what happens. I imagine nameless edges out some in the endless wave because of his revenge bonus. I'll have to see how bad the mutations get without anti-mutant. @Ntice, since you are running with just the hero pretty much, I would think dark pact would be very powerful with 75% bonus to your main. @Bamboochq: I'd recommend swords, staffs, and blunts. Weapons with less ammo have higher reload speeds, and that becomes important when you get to day 800+ and mutants and bosses start cause you to reload more or slow your speed down. Some characters—Goblin, Slime, Snake—also have bonuses to the first or last/1st shot, so the more quickly you run out of ammo the more often you get that extra damage. Also, they have a higher % attack to whatever they are weak to. For example, Staffs do like 210% to armor and 30% to magic, and the wand does like 250 to armor and only 15% to magic. When you combine the bonus you get from antimagic which can get you 1000+% damage, half or twice that is a big deal. Benholio: yeah no number on the flame shield—there are a few others that are unclear like that. Love is a lot stronger than Eye, although he has adjusted Eye's ring to give one more aux laser so that maybe evens it out some...that scientist bonus is pretty handy though, getting 2400 research points per day means about 100% character damage and damage reduction by day 1000. That said, late game my mercs sometimes do more damage than my main—I have their hell store bonuses the same—it depends on the mutations and the enemy types, then it is also a lot easier to promote Orc then Mr. Blade...I have Orc at 80 and Blade at 60, so that's part of it. That's also why I'm happier dropping Eye for slime, who also has the scientist bonus. We'll see though, I'm still on my first run with this.
I certainly don't disagree. Nature allows me to be a bit more carefree with my grinding since I don't need dungeon repair. Also, dark pact only provides a 30% increase in ATK. The 30% enemy health reduction is also pretty nice.
Does legendary accessory that is "Insert a name here Only" meant to be obtained as main with that hero in tower of trial or does it mean its only wearable by that class?
Should I drop eye for love when I can unlock her in hell? I got lucky enough to get both her legendary ring and necklace from the trials in God mode
Did a bit of testing to confirm some thoughts on a few stats. Mutant Growth Inhibition (MGI) This stat does pretty much what we theorized - it lowers the stat values of enemy mutations. However, at high levels it starts to have diminishing returns. That is because there is a upper limit to mutation values, and that upper limit doesn't change based on your MGI. Example: Say at your current difficulty and day, a given mutation would give enemies +2500% damage. However, there is a maximum limit on that mutation of +1000%, so that's all that they get. If you now add 50% MGI, you might expect the value to go down to 500%, but it doesn't. I guess it takes the original 2500% value and modifies it, but it is still capped at 1000%. The further you go into difficulties and days, the more mutations you get are already well over their maximum, so your MGI stops affecting them. Item Quality Item Quality gives a linear increase to the damage of your weapon. The result is somewhat disappointing. For example, the damage difference between a 99.5% weapon and a 99.95% weapon is less than half a percent. So don't go crazy trying to find those extra couple of points on your weapon. Likewise, don't go crazy on weapon quality upgrades in the rebirth store. Going from 100% quality to 101% is only a 1% relative damage boost, and it is much cheaper to get that through the +weapon damage upgrade until you've spent a ton of points there.
@Benholio: Thank you! That is great information. I was just playing with some of that today, and comparing DPS and weapon damage before and after. Putting about 200 upgrades into it only amounted in about a 3% difference in weapon damage, but then you get character damage and skills on top of that. So my Mr. Blade, for example, has a DPS 16,000+ times his weapon's damage. PS Did you figure this out yourself or did you get some intel? Props if that was all you. I also found that having Eye or Love for their mutant inhibition is super helpful, and decided to reset my hell store and promotions on my ipad, and compare my team with Eye vs. Love. I found that Eye was a little stronger for now, and for two reasons: 1) it takes less to promote Eye than Love 2) not using Love at all saves 200 hell stones. I suspect that Love will eventually get more out of her hell store bonuses and promotions, but it's probably not worth it until promoted to level 80+ (Eye's hell store bonus is for aux lasers—I don't think that it applies to second laser? EDIT: 2nd laser is an aux laser—that's good!). Plus, the scientist bonus is great (Which means I'm ditching the slime, although I liked him) For a while I was switching out Eye for Love around day 850+, but doing late game switches isn't great for every character because aimed shot, for example, is more valuable than basic training or anti-armor. At any rate, Using Eye allows me more choices with my team. So, with Blade, Eye, Orc, and Wraith, I'm going to try a similar switch out and see if I'm better off running with Ogre, Goblin, or Nameless...I think I'll end up hitting harder and maximizing the huge weapons and rage with Ogre. We'll see. Nameless I'm not sure about—it seems like he wouldn't do much damage against lone bosses because he isn't penetrating, which is his only hell store bonus. About the dark gate: If it kicks in, it will say !Dark Gate! in your notebook. Instead of one day passing, you get 2. (I wasn't sure if the two days meant instead of or additionally, so good to know). And you DO still get the experience for the day you skipped, I'm assuming you get the money as well, but wasn't tracking that. So this might help with the grind more than the fire's haste bonuses...I could see using this when I am needing 3 or 4 runs in order to get hellstone rewards—but I'll need another 10 talents or so to really want to use it. @ntice: whoops yeah I was thinking of the light dungeon's bonus to mercs. It's impressive/ballsy that you can run on basically one character. Lol, maybe the Dev will have an achievement for running solo.
Great research @solar and @benolio. I had an assumption something was going on with mutant inhibition like you described but never fully tested it. Having Eye in late game really doesn't add too much value at this point. I'm starting to try over in for Eye late game once gaining from scientist is slow. I'm glad you pointed out that dark gate still provides xp. I was concerned using that as you would be at a weaker state late game. I lowered my difficulty back to Hell 6/7 to for faster farming. I have 30/30 for main hero atk increase in the Hell store and Hell 8 still takes like 14 hours to get to 1000. Not worth that long of a grind.
You know, I figured I was probably leaving a lot of damage on the table by just letting characters' skills go when they reach high levels. How early do you switch preferred skill to aimed shot, etc.? As soon as the economic bonuses/party skills are maxed?
Ogre beats Nameless beats Goblin So with a main of Blade, flanked by wraith, eye, and orc, I tried out these 3. Goblin was a weaker then Ogre, but when you invest the hell stones you would have put into assassinate into huge weapon, you are better off with Ogre, by about 10+ days in endless waves. I think, as I upgrade the fire dungeon more, Ogre will have even more advantage over Goblin as his 100% crit damage will be worth proportionately less, compared to Ogres 50% damage increase for an enraged party. Ogre is also very good for crowd control when mutations limit the magic weapon damage of Eye/Love—which is a pretty important gap to fill. With Orc and Ogre the fire and water dungeons are considerably stronger too, as they have rage skills and can slow/stun the enemy. vs Nameless: Since I'm going off of the endless waves as a point of reference, Nameless is getting an unfair advantage because of his revenge skill. I appreciate that his penetration bonus in the hell store will also benefit my bounty hunters and make them more worthwhile too. He doesn't promote as quickly as Ogre, however. That said, it only amounted to getting 3 days further in endless mode, so I think its stronger overall to go with Ogre. —probably if you are grinding on a lower difficulty level, you'll get more out of Nameless in endless mode, as you'll make greater use of revenge with higher waves. One more FYI: revenge bonus is the same whether you start at wave 1 or 200. So With this party I'm specializing in: initial damage—best for bosses: Orc (anti-magic/metal) Wraith (magic/rend) crowd control—Ogre (anti-magic/metal) Eye (magic/rend...although not a strong rend, only 130%) Mr. Blade is in the middle, damaging an area and a single target. I could see Nameless floating in this role as well, although he doesn't have bash and his revenge skill isn't as useful in regular battles. With this party the damage output tends to be pretty balanced, and counteracts many of the mutations that can get thrown your way. Only downside, now that I've awakened Ogre It will be harder to max out my builder skill by day 50! @Benholio: I start by focusing on Builder, Scientist, Bank, and then Bounty hunter, giving those characters the +3 skills necklace (in that order) so their potential is higher. (I also will cloud reload the first few days to make sure everyone gets potential to level 3 asap). Fast forward to day 500 or 600, when most of the unique skills have been learned, I focus on bash or shot—if they get more hits in, thats more opportunities for crits and skills to pop up. Around day 700 is good for aimed shot, or shot for my bashers. When I start to get around day 800 I'll focus on reload for a while, because by day 900 you start getting mutations that hit make you reload every 2 seconds or slow your reload...I've already got shot maxed out to counteract attack speed mutations. ps: it's worth getting the ruby store's inherited weapons level+ feature now, I'd say if you have 40,000+ rubies saved for it (and you've already maxed out boss damage and put a ton into character damage). It doesn't help you much in late game per se, but it can make the grind at the beginning easier in that you don't need to upgrade any weapons for a while and can save some money, and I suppose you can earn some more money by selling off higher level extra legendary weapons when you've got the auction researched. It makes getting past day one a lot easier for sure. It'd be nice if this game had a sleep mode. My phone gets h o t sometimes.
Great info, Solar. Thanks for the write up. I am surprised to hear that revenge damage increase doesn't have to be started from day 1. I typically run only 1 Endless run per reincarnation unless I get very unlucky. A quick comment on dark gate: I just checked this out and I can confirm you get gold as well. Only issue here is if you have AI Build on, the gold won't be used until you run the following day. While that isn't a huge issue, your AI Build should be spec'd to handle in excess gold to avoid wasting any. Does Eye still do more damage than your main late game? With benholio' s comment about mutations, Mr eye's mutation inhibition won't provide much, if any, help late game. If eye still does a lot of damage for you, then he is worth keeping in. For me, I am curious about dropping blade for dark elemental. On paper, it really should provide more party buffs without losing the extra normal target damage increase.
Nice, thanks for the info! Have you spent points on "Level + in new game" from the rebirth store? I maxed that one (+100) and have been using Guild to jump my party up on turn 4 or 5 by firing and re-hiring them. At that point, they come with 3/3 potential and usually at least 5-10 points in their economic skill. I'm not sure how this compares to starting them from level 1 in the end, but it is a lot less management.
@BenholioI played with doing that too, but then they level pretty slowly. I just restarted and am on day 24, but my mercs are already level 68 and my main is level 128. Because of preferences, I already have builder at level 38, scientist 18, and bank 14. If I started at level 100 those skills would all be lower! So it ends up being a much stronger start. By the time you get to day 900, the mercs are only 1 or 2 levels behind your main, although I guess I may as well fire and rehire them around day 4-500 when they should have those skills maxed out. Also, that level+ inherited weapons bonus is sweet, it makes the first 30 days so much more streamlined. @Ntice Yes, I'll drop a screenshot from day 996. If there is a magic reduction mutation, however, then Ogre does the most damage—and he is at level 65 here, at level 80 his damage will pump up with the huge weapon 100%. Maybe Eye/Love don't matter as much when you have lots of Mutant points from the rebirth store, but that stuff's not cheap!
Save Transfer Can I somehow transfer my save to my new phone without google play cloud? I have Cyanogenmod installed on my phone and on this phone my google play just doesn't work. My problem now is I can't get my save to my new phone and I spend many hours in this I wouldn't want it to go to waste...
Could someone share what mods do you guys use on weapons? Which combinations for which weapon type etc
@solar the mutations don't help once they are already maxed out. But to each their own. As you can see from my screenshot from day 1000, my mercs don't do really any damage.
With love or eye I never see reload speed over -1000%. More than -1600 is a lot! But then you are playing on a harder level. Am I understanding you rightYou already have rebirth mutations maxed out?! Dang...are there any big jumps in rebirth/ruby/awards by difficulty level? Up to hell 5 it's been a pretty smooth line of growth. Since you pumped your main so much, what happens when physical weapon damage is reduced by mutations? Or main damage reduced and mercs increased? I'm shocked your goblin is doing more damage then your ogre, he was always really weak for me, though I could see how his crit bonus was helping the party a lot. @benholio since there are 1000 upgrades available in the mutant rebirth bonus, I am wondering if the 50% is really 50%maybe we don't have the full equation. What would 500 do? Hard to test out...might need to ask the dev... @bomboocha generally I go four damage, asp, and reload. But if you have someone with the moment skill, you might pass on reload. Crit is good early game, but once you've maxed out the rebirth crit bonus then you don't need it so much. Ammo is a waste. There aren't enough magic and armored enemies to justify rend or anti magic, but avoid wands/daggers/axesmore on that in one of my previous posts.
