I don't mind the %15 cut for the promotion of the bundle--like everyone said, it takes more than a bundle to get the word out. My only question is--if my games are chosen to be included in the bundle, am I still allowed to sell them individually on the AppStore?
As I said, I'm fronting the initial $10,000 promotional budget, which means it will only be recouped after almost 70,000 sales. That's the kind of monthly investment it will take to get it in the top charts. Meanwhile, if you do the math, each dev will have earned almost $4,000. There is little risk to the devs, since they retain their IP rights and can continue to distribute their titles. I plan to launch the bundles at 10 apps each, with a monthly update up to a max of 15 apps, depending on results.
if apple did promotion; they'll become another palmgear/handango - and Kyle, you remember how that turned out. maybe it is a good thing.. i think that an independent group doing this probably wont work well. now; if Arn et al (touch arcade) would do something - then, it could be worth it. the issue is getting a core user base to promote the bundles in front of.. but honestly; how many apple iphone/ipod touch users are even aware of touch arcade? i would probably say less than 10% - apple is really the one holding the key here. it also raises a question as to how will these apps be distributed? will appbundles need to be the one doing the "glue code" to put all the games together? what about developers who do not want to give away their code just to be in the bundle? have you considered how these bundles will be put together.. another question is legal points.. lets say a game that is great gets included; but then it is a center point for legal action et al.. what will happen? apple has a three-strike and your out rule, if one of the games you include violate some condition all the applications could be at risk. apple prefers that the entity that owns the content is the one that publishes it. have you considered these issues? i bundled my game and watch games into a single application. still a unique niche - but you can get all the games cheaper via the bundle.. saving up to 60%.. but, the sales are not that much different now there is a bundle.. if anything; people who would probably buy 2-3 out of the 6, now get all 6.
I would like to know that too. I suppose developers would be allowed to sell their apps individually while being also included in the bundle. 15% for promoting this sounds good. Yes, I know there is little risk to the devs. This is a great opportunity, but a little spreadsheet with the projected earnings would be good to have. Hmm, 10 apps per bundle? Isnt that a little too few? They were discussing 25 or so per bundle a few pages back.
So you are saying only apple would be able to promote this bundle well, but if they did promotions they would become palmgear/handango? So how would toucharcade's core user base promote this bundle? Touch Arcade's pretty well known, isnt it? It's not the only iphone/ipodtouch site but its one of the most popular. Well, in my case, my app is made with freely available source. But I dont think it would be a problem, since the bundle would only include binaries, right? Or some sort of "main menu program" that all it does it selects which game binary to launch. About the possible legal points. I suppose all the apps to be included in the bundle would have to be screened beforehand. I dont think there would be a legal condition problem with these games. Good information to know! Maybe if the bundle included a good enough number of games, let's say 25-30, AND if the games are different, offering different types of entertaintment, it would generate more interest in the buyer.
while it may be the most popular site; how many iphones/ipod touches exist and how many users visit the site. every iphone/ipod touch user has itunes - but i can guarantee that even 10% is a way over estimate for the percentage of these users who visit touch arcade. i would probably say it is more towards 1%. every application you submit; must be complete.. this means the games in questions must be compiled into the "launcher". you could fiddle with binary manipulation; but your going to have issues with resource conflicts etc.. much easier to deal with source code. you don't remember the zuma vs stones of jurassica saga? any application on the store (even original apps) are possible subjects to legal threats/issues. i am wondering how "chillingo" actually handle their distribution and legal issues. maybe someone lurks in these forums. i just don't think the appbundles.com will be a success. if it was a very popular website (like toucharcade) it would probably increase most app sales quite significantly due to the large user base - but, a new entry? no existing users? one small thread in the developer section? probably no different to what we are doing now. that begs the question; the new "free app a day" sites - any numbers on if they are getting visitors or even becoming popular? i am not talking about hundreds of visitors a day - any getting serious (ten thousand+ visitors)? surely nothing can beat apple's exposure.
You raise some very valid points. Do you think there would be a way to somehow contact apple, and reach them at high enough levels to convince them to promote this bundle?
@origionalcopy - 10 apps is good value, without implying "pack of otherwise free/demo apps" that 30 makes me think of. One thing to be careful of is the size of this beast. I don't know about you, but my game weighs 11.9 Mb without DRM. Cheers, Galen
Yea, i didnt think of that. 30 does sound like pack of free demos. My app will be take up less space than that. That's another situation. The apps shouldnt be too big in size, should they?
You're joking, right? FreeAppADay.com consistently gets their featured free apps into the top app charts. Now they have 5 out of the 10 top free apps. You should make it a habit to read some industry news sites like http://www.pocketgamer.biz App bundles have a great chance to succeed, mainly because they are offering 10 non-crappy indie games at a ridiculously low price. While people will hesitate to spend even $1 on a title, when they see 10 interesting looking titles bundled together, it is much easier for them to press the buy button. And our advertising budget will ensure that the launch is a success, bundles will be heavily cross-promoted, etc. I do have some experience promoting Apps, as I recently pushed Battle for Wesnoth to the #2 position in Role Playing Games. I also have experience with "Apple's Exposure" by being featured on the "Hot New Games", "What's Hot" and "What We're Playing" sections. While it does generate a good uptick, it pales in comparison to what a good paid advertising campaign pulls in. Around 10mb per game is just right. After all, the All-in-1 Gamebox is like 180mb (yes, I bought it).
any idea how the NEW sites are going? around 10 have propped up. you an read all about FAAD here and how they got popular in the first place - there are some concerns/questions about ethics behind it. i hope it does.. honestly. get some numbers in place so you can justify that 15% marketing cost and then i would be interested in being a part of it.. right now, i will pass as i do not honestly see any value due to the way the iphone/ipod touch eco system works.. sure, some sales will increase, but you wont become another GAME BOX success overnight.. what happened to the guys who did the app bundles before? i remember there were a few of them released with the same arguments/pretenses that you are defining as well.. none of them soared up the charts. sorry for being the devils advocate but someone has to.
Mobile1up, I know you are playing the devil's advocate, and taking a good, distanced look at this, and that is very helpful and necessary to stay focused and not be overtly naive about this idea, but let's not be so negative, shall we? A simple little spreadsheet with numbers like you mentioned would be indeed a good idea to have. So how does this "free app for a day" thing work? I'm a newcomer to this whole iphone games/appstore distribution. How would that help get this bundle into the charts. I suppose that's the idea. The bundle needs to be chart climber in order to make good returns, doesnt it?
oh - i'm not being that negative i've known kyle from the palm os days - he's a great guy with good intensions. i am more just questioning the success of something like this. i think it would be good to see the numbers and progress of how this kicks off. i have been working with distribution on apple for quite a while now - so, these are all valid questions to ask that need to get answers to for anyone who wants to be serious about this.
I'm a bit late to the thread as I was at GDC all week, but we already started a business to do bundling. Though with high-quality indi games instead of crappy ones. So if you have some non-crappy games and would like to get involved, you can sign up here: http://www.stuffedturkeyapps.com/default-form There's a lot of technical stuff that makes this particularly challenging to do with apps that are not designed on the same engine, or have different social networking software, etc. And many of the APIs that would make it easy are banned by Apple. Then there's the payment and taxation issues, which are complex when dealing with people in multiple countries, etc. That said, it's possible and offers a unique value in the app store. I believe someone goes through the same process of evaluation for a 0.99c app as they do for a $50 game, regardless of how cheap we think a 0.99c app is. The question I usually ask is "Do I see myself really playing this more than a few times". I think bundling can greatly help this, as your increasing the possibility of answering yes to that for each game of interest. You also end up working with a lot of smart people, leveraging their talents and past promotion.
I can't wait for these bundles to catch on. Anxiously awaiting the 1001 iPhone games bundle. Reminds me of those CDROMs they used to sell back when everyone was still blown away by how much data they held.
Stuffed Turkey, playing devil's advocate here, who are you? What experience do you have with the AppStore and promoting apps? How are you spending the 20% you take? What funding do you have to promote bundles on launch so that they are a success?
i would think this could have success, though it would have to be phenomenal. something like 50 games in one at least. just 30 wouldnt neccesarily make a success. and anyway, their games are obviously aimed at the more casual audience, and i find that it works. they're by no means awesome technological achievements, but they're fun to play in short bursts and they're cheap!
looks like there is competition cometh... i don't understand why people simply copy other principles once they have some form of idea of success.. oh well
ok first: the website looks terrificly good! second: dont make 30 games, as trinity is updating the all in 1 box. got it when tzhey were 18 games only third: please dont make 30 crappy games as they are waste of space. better 10 good games , these dont waste any space also dont make to much games, also a waste of space and time for you devs although if one only is good ill buy it
