Hi guys! Glad to have a genuine dismount simulator on the iPhone now. (I just bought it right away ..was such a fan of the original.) There were a couple of things I miss from the original.. and they're pretty simple, so I was hoping you might consider them: 1) Changing the angle of impact. ..currently we can move the arrow and it will automatically change the angle so it's at right-angles with the surface. But what if I could, say, drag with two fingers to adjst that angle? My favourite dismount technique was to push the shoulder, but push at an *up* angle too - to get a tiny bit of extra altitude for the fall. >:] 2) Can I change the camera-angle or zoom for the dismount? Sometimes I want to see the big picture (the whole scene) as the dummy falls. Maybe an option for a static camera which we can drag, pinch, two-finger drag to move, zoom, and angle the camera? An option to zoom the current dynamic camera would be neat. That's all I really want. I love the ideas you guys have for online leaderboards and associated replays, so I don't need to suggest anything there. ..one thought on the face though: How about if we could apply several different expressions? A 'plain' face, an "oof" face, an "ow" face, and a final tongue-sticking-out face when the finally come to rest? An option to record those sounds would be neat. ..I'm just thinking out loud here. (maybe a wide-eyed surprise expression is needed when first pushed too.) Hope sales for this one are really good ..Then a Truck Dismount game will make sense.
The game would be a lot of fun to play in landscape mode, I would like to be able to choose. I think a fun level would be a rocky hill of some sort something that he could roll down. And to make it more interesting make it so he stand at like the very crest of the tall hill and you can push him in all directions down this hill/mountain and it's different on different sides.
I'm flattered you think that my desire to have a fair, corruption-free App Store is ridiculous. I'd Push you down your own stairs but I fear the word "push" may be trademarked.
+1 on that. Ok prior to Max Injury, i'm not that acquainted to this sadistic game genru. IMHO the word "dismount" is a freaking verb in the English language. If it's part of the language, it should not be used as a trademark or even be enforceable at all. MidianGTX has a point, maybe he can't use the word "push" because who knows how many Tim Langdels are lurking around. If you guys had created a new word, maybe like Stair Dizmount (bad example i know) then i would say that it is a trademark and a very legit one. The only argument you have right now sounds like "We used the word Dismount in a game first, so we own it and nobody else can use it in that context." I'm no legal expert obviously, but that just doesn't seem right.
I don't see why this is such a big deal. The dev clearly said he didn't want Apple to remove anything (if Apple does that, how is it his fault?), he just wanted to be sure if someone searched for 'Stair Dismount' or 'Dismount', in other words, if someone was looking for his game, they'd find it. They pay money for advertising. Why should other devs benefit off their name recognition? The Tim Langdell thing is ridiculous, Secret Exit specifically has gone against his actions in the past. To be suggesting they are acting like him is ridiculous. He has gone out of his way for a simple word to games that could not remotely be confused with the works he is associated with. Stair Dismount and the other games in question COULD be confused, so to want your brand differentiated by its name in a search query? Doesn't seem that crazy. They're not saying 'dismount' can't be used in a game, they just don't want search results to return incorrect apps. And how in the world is that corruption by any means? He made a simple request through proper channels... he didn't pay Apple off or something. And for us to even be discussing this is too, it was a simple miss-communication that Apple is responsible for, and people flip out at Secret Exit? PS @ Frand, I haven't bought your game, yet, but I plan on it in the future. Just made a few other acquisitions recently, don't wanna overdo it. (You and Edge shoulda planned your releases staggered a bit I'm busy with Cross Fingers!)
This looks cool but for £1.79 i'm not to sure. They are alot of great deals on the app store. Hmmmm, i will think about it.
Because the word "dismount" is NOT theirs. If I search the word dismount, as a consumer I want to find ALL of the apps which have anything to do with dismounting something, that's the entire point of keywords. If I specifically wanted to find Stair Dismount then I'd type Stair Dismount. You're right, it is ridiculous if one minute they're going against Tim and the next they're emulating him. iDropDead has been out far longer than this game, there's no way the iDD devs could be accused of stealing Secret Exits customers considering they don't even meet development costs as it is (10 purchases in one day would be a success for those poor guys) and to go and force them to make changes to a description they've had up for so long, doing absolutely no harm at all is just blatant bullying. If I didn't know better I'd say Stair Dismount was failing to meet expectations and the devs are resorting to the most desperate tactics they can think of. In no conceivable way is the word "dismount" anything like "Tetris", "Coca Cola" or "Mickey Mouse". Keywords are allowed, when I type in a keyword I don't expect to be directed to a single app just because the devs have forbidden anyone else from using the word, I want as many apps related to that word as possible. In my opinion, iDropDead counts. It's not the miscommunication I'm complaining about, it's the sheer desperation of these guys that tempts them to go after the smaller dev teams who are struggling enough as it is.
I totally disagree. I think its reasonable to conclude someone who is searching for 'dismount' is searching for this product specifically and not others. Someone would be looking for the 'dismount' genre? Or maybe... the ragdoll genre. That makes more sense. Regardless of it being a 'real word', they are simply trying to get their brand recognition. They specifically tried to avoid issues with removal and Apple's policies. Why can't these things be civil instead of freaking out, its just a keyword, its not the end of the world. Also, I think the assumption that Secret Exit is some big evil company is ludicrous. They are an indie dev themselves, albeit successful. I personally hate how things can be with 'keywords' being abused (see YouTube), and any attempts to keep them for finding what you are looking for specifically, and not other things, is welcomed in my books. (What I mean here is people just listing tons of keywords to get hits, but I'm not accusing anyone here) PS - I'm done here, I've said my piece.
You're right, it's not a huge deal, and ttursas removing one word isn't the end of the world. But the more credit you give this case, the more right you're giving Tim Langdell to say the word edge belongs to him. Do that and we're just paving the way for many more pointless arguments in the future. I was always quite fond of Secret Exit as a dev team, but to let this one slide after complaining about Langdell would just be hypocritical. I never said Secret Exit was a big evil company, but being an indie dev doesn't exclude you from acting fairly. We've seen a lot of cases of indie devs playing dirty on the App Store. When you type "dismount" on AppShopper (can't check iTunes atm) you get two games... Stair Dismount and Tattoo Mania. I hardly think adding one more game to that list would cause Stair Dismount to get lost in the crowd, it seems like a totally pointless move in the first place and I'm struggling to imagine why they even decided it was worth the bother in the first place. ...oh, and if someone was searching "dismount" looking for the ragdoll genre they should be getting iDD in their search results.
Here is where we can respectfully disagree. How would you search for "stair dismount" or "dismount" games with the intention of finding ragdoll simulations (and not, say, a pony-riding game) if you had not either a) played the PC game from 2002 b) noticed the new Dismount game coming out. Our game series has undeniably coined the term, and it's only in this context that we've requested other companies to respect the uniqueness of the keywords. We have no objections whatsoever for the games being displayed side by side under generic search terms that perfectly describe the game genre, such as "ragdoll", "physics", "stairs", "collisions" and so on. The word "Dismount" in the context of ragdoll games is no less unique than "Asphalt" or "Burnout" in the context of racing games. And the keyword search in iTunes is designed to return either specific games when searched by name, or multiple results when searched with broader keywords. In any case, we have sent a polite request, not an ultimatum. The wording in Apple's notice emails is not something we were aware of before reading about it here on the forums. From our side there have been no threats, no time limits, no bullying and absolutely no demands for any apps to be taken down from the store. We have followed Apple's process for informing other companies as noted in developer guidelines, and have specifically asked for Apple to take no radical action. This is all I can do to clarify our position.
Had they asked for removal, yea, I'd agree entirely. They just asked a keyword be removed. I don't think that adds anything to Langdell's claims, his are WAY beyond that, they don't have to be afraid to do anything to protect their sales and advertising in fear they will look like Langdell. If they let that happen, the terrorists win--- Too far? /done for real now
I'm recapping a few points here which I already posted in the drop dead thread. After hearing what the Apple's apparently canned response was, I certainly have to say that that was quite the opposite of what was intended. Our main concern was the fact that when searching for "Stair Dismount", yesterday iTunes wouldn't for some reason even in all cases respond with our game but another game instead. For what it's worth, as the creator of the original dismount games, my intentions aren't to bully anybody. But looking at it from different view, I would have losed any right to the trademark a long time ago if I hadn't asked others to change names of other non-related games named "Stair Dismount" to something else. As a developer it really does feel bad when others go and take advantage of my work that way. Luckily almost all ppl are very reasonable when being explained the case, i.e. most people just don't realize how bad it is for a developer. What happened to ttursas here is some unintentional collateral damage. Sure we should have been more careful checking the thing first thoroughly and maybe not be naive enough not to realize beforehand that it is almost always a canned response or something which goes in situations like these. I feel bad it had to happen this way and ending up in public name calling, especially considering the fact that I hang around in same local irc channel with ttursas and this thing could have been just checked between ourselves without making up a big fuss (since we had no idea that apple would put such a threatening tone in the mail). EDIT: After all, I wouldn't be looking to remove the action Dismount from MechWarrior or anything, since it is a completely different thing after all. THAT would have been langdell all over again! ;-)
Let me ask also some honest opinions: Try searching with Google for "Dismount". Chances are you'll first hit will be my original home page for the Dismount games. It reflects years of work with the theme, with all the different versions made along the years as well as a bunch of user created mods etc. If you think there's no any trademark-like claim to connection of word dismount to games and rag doll physics simulation, then it would be completely ok for some big company to make a dismount-titled game. For example, maybe PAiN on PS3 could have been "Pain Dismount". Do you think that would have been completely fair after my years of work? I'm all ears, so please share your thoughts!
I see where you're coming from, but in my opinion the only reason you associate the word with your games is because you keep using it so much. Wouldn't this mean the more Tim Langdell uses his word the more ownership he has over it? As for "Asphalt", searching that particular word gives a ton of results, including an app with the word in it's title, so it's obvious that although we all relate the word to the driving games (in this forum at least), the devs didn't feel the nerve to restrict it. The word "dismount" is a lot less common, so many search results do end up linking to your games, but that's only because the word isn't used much... which doesn't necessarily imply that it's your word just because you thought to use it. Since I'm on it, Burnout is also the name of a film, a song, PC software and a comic book character... why is it they can all co-exist peacefully? Is their situation any different?
I don't agree with all of MidianGT's points, but i do agree in spirit that this case has at least certain qualities similar to Tim Langell and Mobigames' case. Any reasonable gamer would assume that dismount isn't really something that is exactly new or unique even if secret exit did used it in a new context first. A lot of old literature (i can't name books off the top of my head right now) uses the word dismount to describe falling off horses ungracefully etc. Would you expect their authors or publisher to issue a claim on everyone else not to use it in whatever creative ways the original author did? Writers routinely copy each other's ideas or clever ways of using words and terms. I don't see how games is different from that. If another game wants to replace faceplant with dismount, can they be stopped from doing so? Would that make it ok for them to use dismount in their keywords then? Agreed to a certain extent and respect your position. But in retrospect, you guys should have just contacted the iDD guys in private. Why get Apple involved? It is naive to think that Apple would not just send an ultimatum to the iDD guys. They don't have time for discussions. Even if you didn't threaten them, Apple will. Apple just want to get you off their back.
I disagree. It's not the same as the Langdell/Edge fiasco. Stair Dismount came out in 2002, just 7 years ago. It has become a successful franchise, with multiple games. Secret Exit has been making other games actively since then, as well. They are a REAL development company. Langdell trademarked Edge like 3 decades ago. If the Edge thing came up in like 1985, Langdell would have more of a valid point. The Edge Games company was more successful back then, and actively publishing games. The fact that his "company" hasn't created anything tangible in 20+ years, and they are still trying to argue that their Edge brand is relevant enough that others are trying to claim fame from it is what makes that case despicable. Of course, no one in a million years would be buying Mobigame's Edge today thinking they were getting the latest epic from super dev Tim Langdell and Edge Games. Langdell's "company" has more fame from all the controversy he's created, rather than from anything positive they ever did as a publisher or developer. But the thing is, using the word dismount in relation to ragdoll injury games was created when Stair Dismount came out. And at the time it came out, they DID trademark Dismount, Stair Dismount, and other variants. The freaking main character is named Mr. Dismount! If Stair Dismount never came out, it is unlikely that anyone would use "dismount" to search for the ragdoll genre. If a game came out called Ultimate Dismount where you had to leap off a moving horse and land on a target, then that would be ok. If Ultimate Dismount came out and it was a ragdoll game, where you push a guy down stairs and inflict damage, that would not be ok. The fact that the keyword "dismount" brings up other ragdoll stair games is reason enough for Secret Exit to request that it be changed. If they don't defend the trademark, someone could challenge it's relevance. And if successful, then every single ragdoll injury game could throw around the word "dismount" however they wanted, diluting it's brand recognition. Obviously, that wasn't the intention of the iDD dev, and it seems Secret Exit knows this, however is obliged to request they make the change. I'm sure there could have been a more cordial and discreet way to handle such a thing. Especially since the two devs have a history of chatting in the past, Secret Exit probably should have directly contacted him before going to Apple. But the iDD dev could have contacted them first, too, without spouting all of this on an internet forum. I just couldn't disagree any more that this is the same as the Langdell thing. And I think you are being unfairly harsh, and a little bit rude, to Secret Exit, having passed judgment on them already and refusing to acknowledge otherwise. Please don't take this as a personal attack at all, I think you are one of the best posters on this whole forum, and contribute greatly. I would just like you to at least entertain the idea that this isn't some dev bullying another, or acting out of fear of competition.
This doesn't make any sense. There is a series of games dating back to 2002, all based on ragdoll physics, all with the word "Dismount" in their name: Stair Dismount, Truck Dismount, Dismount Levels, Sauna Dismount and now Stair Dismount on iPhone. All with the same developer. How do you insist this is somehow different from any other name of a game series? Do you feel that "Quake" or "Uncharted" is a free word for anyone to use in any game? And yes, the more you use your trademark, the stronger claim you have for the name in case it becomes contested. This is exactly how trademarks work. We have no more desire for all ragdoll games to be called dismount games than EA has a desire for all street racing games to be called burnout games. Small as the niche may be, there are years of work invested in making particular type of ragdoll games known by the name "Dismount", and it is no different in principle (only in scale) from years of work in developing shooter games with the name "Quake". Yes, and this is clearly defined by trademark laws. A trademark is registered per category, and if you register the trademark for the word "Pong" in the context of computer games then it prevents other companies in the same industry from using the term. But other industries are free to use it. This is why Burnout is a film, a song and a game - EA has only registered the trademark in one category.
MidianGTX, I think you are way off. If you look at it the other way, I think look at it from the intent of the other developers. Were these keywords "dismount" and "stair dismount" used for the purpose of riding the coat-tails of Secret Exit's name. I think it's obvious they were. The Max Injury developer is clearly trying to pad his keywords to come up if someone searches for Stair Dismount. Tturas also includes Max Injury's name and Rag Doll Blaster names in their description. I don't think the use of "Dismount" is an innocent coincidence. (Now, I'm not saying they should be burned at the stake either, but no one is. I'm a fan of ttursas's) arn
