The Evils and Merits of Free to Play Discussion

I like reading peoples bickering about f2p stuff. Don't even have a strong opinion myself - just like I feel it's the future of video games (my speculation: the devices themselves will eventually be free (?)) Main reason I read this forum. Don't be shushing.

Anyway Metalcasket will be here in a minute listing all the diseases Flick Kick Football Legends cures so stay tuned if that's really why you're here.

 

Sorry, this will be my last post, I won't belabor it beyond this.

Yes, but very few of those top grossing games are pay to play. Now, some do have that (candy crush, for example) and some are builder games that are designed for waiting.

What at I find funny is that real racing 3 isn't within the top 100 of free, and is down to 31 in top grossing. The rest of the games run a wide gamut, but very few have the combination that we've got here, timers in an "arcade" style game. RR3's timers also become less an issue the further you go in the game , as you have the ability to switch to different cars.

That said, like terrible movies and music, top charts like this prove that people like a lot of crap.

To put it simply, most of the action games on the top charts are not pay to play like this and real racing 3, which again is more fair the further you get in the game.

I was pointing out that those people who don't mind only spending short chunks in the games until their energy refills are likely those who won't be buying IAP, they'll just wait, which is addressing the initial argument.

What we don't have full details on are those who do spend money. As I've mentioned before, this is a game where IAP spending here is different than many games. Instead of it helping you get ahead in the game, it exists solely to allow you to simply play. It doesn't help level you up or do anything beyond playing the game.

But to have to do this EVERY time you want to play for a few hours? How can you not see that's ridiculous? I'm pretty forgiving with many forms of IAP, but IAP that's there to limit your ability to play the game is many shades of questionable design.

Timer IAP like this is different from standard consumable IAP. Say, for example, you were to buy consumable IAP in, say, Warhammer quest. Doing it once, and getting yourself a head start in the game is possible, or if you're really stuck and really don't want to have to do a few quests over again, paying can push you to a level where it's not necessary any more. There are, of course, many people who keep using it and will exhaust the game by making their character OP and turning the game into nothing.

Timer IAP however only allows you to just keep playing. If you were to, say, spend $20 on the game, all that allows you to do is keep playing. It doesn't enhance the game in ANY way, it just allows you to keep playing.

If you can't see how different those two are, I don't know what more I can say.

Both. Here, you can play for a short while and then can no longer play. It's pretty clear that the only benefit of constantly dumping money is to allow you to continue playing. If you play for a week, a month, or a year, you'll still be paying to play for longer periods.

It's IAP in general. It's directly related to gambling and gambling addictions. There have been countless discussions about how these games "attack" weak parts in our games.

The timers here aren't as nefarious as Puzzles and Dragons, but it is still questionable. You play for a bit, get into a groove and then either have to stop, or pay to keep going.

Think back to megaman, and how if you were doing incredibly well you kept going and going and just crushed.

Imagine if, while playing, the game stopped you just after you survived one of the most difficult parts, and you either had to wait or pay. You're in the zone, and you know how hard it was to get there. If you quit, you might not be able to finish, so maybe if you drop a few bucks you'll get through it and finish the level.

Addictions are just that. They can be to food, drugs, whatever. IAP like this is very near to tactics used in gambling.

Again, the problem is that there is no regulation here. Games designed for kids have options to buy $100 in smurfberries. This is a major problem because of how the brains of kids AND young adults work, they are much more susceptible to the tricks and hooks employed

One thing that's frustrating is the comment of people accusing TA as defending F2P mechanics - yet Almost every time something pops up, particularly something that gets a lot of eyes on it, there's a very good chance either you or Eli will be here to argue in defense of the game and F2P model imposed. Very, very, very rarely do you criticize or concede much, if any, points against the game or developers.

Yes, F2P does make a ton of money in the App Store, just like casinos make tons of money. The promise of walking in with a few bucks and walking out with loads more is very similar to buying a few different pieces of IAP to build something faster, have a stronger army or play a bit longer.

The most important factor, though, is that while these methods used in F2P games earn the developers truckloads of money, they rarely do so by providing great depth and value For the money.

If you were to sit people down who play these games and spend significant amounts of money to bring the games into the App Store and showed them a breakdown of what they've spent versus what they received, and asked if they'd feel positively about announcing that amount to friends and family, I don't think you'd see many people come out of that happy.

When you are buying a console game for, say, $60, you're getting a game that has a deep design to it, and likely cost millions to make, and your money goes to help pay the salaries of the employees working there.

Many of these top grossing games are built around a financial hook. Sure, the game still has to be good, but if you were to honestly take and break down many of the top grossing games, you could easily find paid versions that don't haven cheap restrictions. For example, Puzzle Quest versus the Marvel branded Puzzle Quest. The original, paid without timers or IAP, is still considered one of the best match 3 games out there. So they follow it up with a well done (visually) game that's basically the same as the original but with a bunch of added fan service with cool artwork as such... Yet they've added in multiple levels of IAP, the worst offender being "energy"

Would they have made as much money if they were to launch it as a fixed price game? Probably not, but are we now okay for developers to make games with the focus on how to constantly milk money out of customers?

The easy way is clear, and it seems that's where developers are going... But seriously, is that what we want our of gaming? There are so many still there that don't use tricks THIS cheap, and they're doing incredibly well. Heck, Oceanhorn is in the top grossing.

Anyway, I know this has gone off topic and isn't terribly fair to PikPok, but at the same time we need to ensure that developers are treating their customers fairly. A few years ago, IAPs were almost non existent. We began to see some of the best games hit the store. Then a few games began to use a few tiny bits of IAP here and there, and people started to buy it. It then became more and more frequent, and more intrusive. More methods were put in to coerce more and more money out of people.

If this keeps up, I'm fairly confident there will be some pretty extensive regulations in place. If not from Apple, it could come from the government. This is a slippery slope, and we keep taking more and more of the carrot.

 

@andsoitgoes:

It honestly pains me to see you exert this much effort. Not because I don't think you have something worthwhile to say, but because I know where it will end up. For what it's worth, something to keep in mind, perhaps, for next time: the vast majority of time, on TA, you're either preaching to the converted, or the perverted.

 

I know you are completely, entirely and 120% right. And sadly typing is something that now causes me a LOT of discomfort, which is why I don't post as much, and I waste it fighting causes that aren't fight... Able.

But maybe, just maybe, if that one person who skimmed 90% of my message changes his or her attitude even slightly... Well it probably still wasn't worth it. Thanks for your support, though. That's something, a lot of something.

 

@andsoitgoes

Well said. And for these reasons I'll pick up games like Oceanhorn or FMH 2014 despite their price tags. Those games are worth even more than I paid, AND they come playable without timers.

Too bad we can't at least go back to the full/lite versions of each app. If I liked them, I would pay for full versions. But when I don't have a choice, I don't pay a thing.

The next time PikPok offers a quality premium app, I'll be ready.

 

Yeah, I still think it's the energy bar that kills this one for me though. At this rate, I might be getting rid of my iPad Air sooner than I'd thought - the abundance of F2P games with daft money-grabbing add-ons is really killing iOS as a platform for me.

I guess it's not the developers fault, it just irritates me that gamers don't have the bottle to pay £1.99 for a full game. In my opinion, this has almost forced developers to come up with this lunatic idea of almost conning people into paying for a temporary "license" to allow more playing of their favourite games. It's a bit of a nonsense really, it's like being back in a mid-90s seaside arcade.

Game Over. Plop another 50p in the slot to continue.

 

The ads are removed by buying an IAP. I want to remove the whole game.

 

Oh don't get me wrong I totally agree, it's the timer that kills any kind of decent play session but where in the arcades you at least had to die before it asked you for more money and if you were good you got to play on. Here you have to pay either way.

 

I see this game is heavily sponsoring TouchArcade this week. Certainly explains Eli's heavy support for it.

 

Interesting indeed.

As I've said before, I think this is a great game potentially (with a few tweaks here and there), but it's just let down so much by this whole recharge thing. It's already resulted in a lot of people getting rid of the game, and I think it's a massive mistake on PikPok's part but one that they don't seem to have acknowledged or, at least, it doesn't seem like they're particularly worried about it. I guess, therefore, it's going to stay the way it is ad infinitum.

I've loved PikPok games in the past and have been in touch with the team a wee bit with ideas for improving their previous games, but unfortunately I (personally) think they've messed up what could have been an essential title with this recharge nonsense.

 

Considering European football predates American football by many centuries, hence why "American" is needed before the American version in order to distinguish it from the original, I think we had dibs on the term "Football" first.

 

I wonder why Touch Arcade have been so crazily excited about this one, when it's so obviously flawed in so many ways?

 

Hey, TA needs to provide food on their families' tables I guess.

 

Then why no mention of the horrible flaws, extortionate cost to play past a solid paywall? The review was amazingly glowing and seemed to ignore any of the many negatives...

 

Oops... It was AppAdvice... So sorry...!

 

A great game bought advertising with you?

 

Elaborate conspiracies? A shadowy organisation? Secret underhanded deals?

Very dramatic.

I certainly wasn't imagining you and PikPok quickly exchanging a briefcase full of unmarked bills on passing escalators but we can go with that if you want.