Grubjelly, Not to be a pill but I'm not sure what you are saying there? I don't think you mean to suggest that a dev needs a trackrecord first and unless you have a track record all bets are off? Im sure you agree that new developers have as much reason to expect fair and equitable treatment from those that offer to assist as more established devs do. Shifting the focus of the conversation to devs needing to prove they are worthy serves to exacerbate the problem imho. No biggie but the issue is an important one and i want to be sure i and others dont misunderstand your intent. As an aside what do fake phone call apps have to with the issue? Does giving away a prank soundboard fit your definition of a company of 'not good standing'? Guess that rules us out
Completely dismissing the value of obtaining a written NDA through the proper channels doesn't look good, to put it another way. Perhaps it wouldn't be effective in certain jurisdictions, but to dismiss such a potentially valuable resource when the app companies themselves could be fly-by-night and steal an unwary applicant's identity, recalls one of the reasons why the paranoia of budget app designers limits their access to applicants in general. In other words, an NDA could potentially benefit more than harm an app's success, since it could lead to a more stable app offering the consumer a better experience (e.g. fewer crashes and better UI leads to fewer refunds, fewer low ratings, and better magazine coverage, etc.).
Agreed, I don't think the reputation of the developer really has anything to do with it -- those who apply for betas for the purpose of either getting free stuff and/or pirating it are going to apply for betas whether you're Gameloft or Bill in Apartment 2B. Pirates and freeloaders are indiscriminate for the most part. That's pretty much the problem. If you're going to hold an open beta you either have to scrutinize those who apply carefully (which is no guarantee of anything, but better than nothing), or take the risk of having your beta leaked and pirated. Otherwise you have to hand-pick who you want to test from those you have observed to be contributing and apparently trusted members of the community. Or just stick to using family and friends. At least those you can track down and smack if they break the rules.
I wasn't saying that a less established company is more likely to be pirated, but rather that a more established and/or more professional seeming company is more likely to receive the bulk of beta testing applications from sincere, honest, and skilled testers who are looking more for experience than for a free game, and that crowd would be the least likely to pirate (I could be wrong, but that seems intuitively right).
I would have assumed the opposite: Bigger brands would attract more people who just want freebies because they're A) A bigger name with bigger games that would give them more geek cred, and B) For the pirates, these would be bigger name titles that would earn them more pirate cred, or whatever the hell units of social currency those morons use. (I shall call them "derps") If anything, the more indie you are (and thus the lesser name you have for yourself) the less likely you are to be on a pirate's radar, though newbies wanting to get into beta testing are more likely to take anything that's offered to them.
I believe that most testers who are both honest, responsible, and skilled would prefer not to deal with the less established indie companies (i.e. compared to a better known, innovative and/or prolific indie companies) who don't know how to deal with beta testers, and accuse them of "leaking" dollar-software, and generalize about the worthlessness of NDA's.
I'll admit that I do tend to favour more well-established developers, but in large part that's because I generally tend not to actively seek out beta opportunities (though I do get invited periodically), and also because I really don't have the time to devote to testing more than a small handful at a time. At the moment though, I'm in two active betas, both from indies, both of which have only one other title on the App Store, but it's largely because I've been a supporter of those first apps and they asked, and I'm always up for helping out other developers make the best apps they can. But I'm not the average beta tester I suspect.
App companies stealing a beta testers identity?! Surely you jest! And your later assertion that "testers who are honest, responsible and skilled would prefer not to deal with the less established indie companies" is almost offensive to the many hard working devs who frequent these parts but might not be established enough for your standards. What constitutes indie or established or big or small in your eyes? Were beta testers to use that as a measure of worth as you seem to - instead of focusing on the merits of the individual project- they would miss out on some incredible opportunities. I'll use ourselves as an example, we are relatively small to those on the outside looking in - does that make us unworthy or somehow dubious? Apple doesn't think so, Data East didn't think so when they licensed their IP to us, nor it seems do the testers, media, review sites or hundreds of thousands that purchase our games. Or does the 3m utilities we have sold through our other app business 'Collect3' make the difference? The answer to those who are enlightened is of course neither matters when we are talking about beta testing. A developers ability to find good beta testers has less than zero to do with size or how 'established' a dev is! We found very "honest reliable and skilled testers" easily and others can too and it had nothing to do with whether we were 'established' - they didn't ask and we didn't feel it relevant - it was a common belief in a vision and passion for a project. The AppStore is the antithesis of the hierarchy you describe and disdain you seem to demonstrate for what you mistakenly call 'fly by nighters'. It is designed to provide opportunities for everyone who wants to chase their dream, big and small. My advice was for those people (those creating things not seeking to tear others down) as it's important that would-be devs starting out receive informed answers from those who have first hand experience, so hopefully they'll find some nuggets of wisdom in the responses of those who've been there. Attempting to twist the question of how devs can find testers... and instead have them question THEIR worthiness - when to have the balls to actually have a go means they've likely already had to overcome lots of barriers - does them and you a huge disservice. One further point that needs clarification, i fear you are a bit confused as to the purpose of an NDA - they are extremely useful when used for the right purpose as I described - but DO NOT provide magic protection from pirates as should be self evident from earlier posts by other devs. Best to all.
