Why iOS gaming is not taken seriously?

Thanks man!
Yeah, the SoulCalibur thread was a bit out-of-hand during the time I wrote this.

 

Agreed especially with the last part since that was one of my main problems with iOS--not being dedicated.

Secondly, Apple doesn't seem in a hurry since they make quite a bit of money on their own products, are already financially stacked, and make .30 off of every dollar.

Third, would a game as intense as Uncharted truly be as fun on a iPhone.

Fourth, most console gamers, at least the ones I know and see on some other forums, acknowledge that the iPad is just a consumer product and not a real gaming device--prolly feel the same way about iPhone. Heck, most of my friends think I'm a fool for playing on my iPod. If they do see something interesting, it's always --"yeah, that's cool I guess"--if that.

And then, finally, we have to take the community into account. Shouldn't they be put on trial just as much as the devs? Maybe not since this is what they're used to. Hmm...

Agreed!

Do you know how many articles I read that point to a $500,000 musical score? A lot! As it's been stated on plenty of sites, most ppl won't know the difference. I know I sure wouldn't but maybe that's just me.

I've already expressed my worries with price increases, but a lot (most) of that isn't necessarily the developers fault.

I want to definitely say I agree with the ROI point that you make towards the end. This is something that a lot of people fail to realize. Even a lot of free/free to try games have a low conversion rate.

 

The big boys can't keep up with the indie devs on iOS, so they don't even bother. Essentially it costs the likes of EA a lot of money to build their franchises and they can't make that money back from selling 99c apps, especially in a market where indie devs and the likes of Gameloft are often offering games as good or even better, for less.

EA are often putting their prices right down for a few days, not to make a profit, but just to push all the indie competitors off of the charts for a while. It's pretty vicious stuff. But yeah, the real profit comes from hardcore gamers, and hardcore gamers are using PS Vitas and 3DS's when they're away from home, not smartphones...

I mean, Soul Calibur recently showed up, amazing game, used to play it on my Dreamcast, for $8. On any other system, $8 is nothing, but for an iOS app, it's probably one of the most expensive games on the store.

 

@DistantJ

Nice insight on developer competitiveness. I always forget to mention that, but I've heard quite a few stories/accusations of what some of the bigger companies do.

I have my own theories about freemyapps (and similar) that have been formed based off of reading articles about these types of apps and developer complaints.

Not to get into crazy detail, but it seems to usually only help bigger companies/games?

As a dev, what's your opinion?

 

I've never been quite sure how these 'get paid stuff free' deals work, I've not been involved with them before. Up until Awesome Land I've only ever had success with free apps. I have often considered offering up a couple of games for, say, the Humble Indie Bundle, because these kind of things raise awareness of your product and that's actually kind of priceless.

You also get the bigger companies who swallow up indie devs. Chillingo are an example. Chillingo ain't so bad, but sometimes companies swallow up indie devs and then you don't see anything with that indie spirit from those devs ever again, it's ironic, the very heart which makes indie games so popular where they're readily available (iTunes store etc.) is the thing that the big devs are missing, and inadvertently strip out as soon as they snap up an indie dev...

 

Not necessarily true

1. As expectations for better graphics/gameplay get higher, the cost and time to produce fantastic results has become lower throughout the years.

2. I can assure you that today's developers have much better tools to create "on the fly" graphics for ios comparable to ps3 than they did 5 years ago. Stop thinking that as games get better and more sophisticated, they will cost more to develop (ON MOBILE). This may be true for pc/console or have a correlation to the productivity of the staff. Mobile is just an up-chuck of 10-year old tech, fit to the palm of your hand.

ex: I can change my 325i break pads in 1 1/2 hours. My brother can do it in 1/2 hour. He also works for BMW and uses a lift alongside a plethora of SNAP-ON tools. I got a tire jack (albeit a nice one) and my sledge hammer. A lift was very expensive 10 years ago, but now there are many affordable home kits.

3. ios gaming was on the track to being taken seriously until "FREEMIUM" f||cked it up for everyone. I haven't been excited for iOS releases for quite some time now. Sorry for those new to ios that don't remember the days of impressive titles, like "Space Miner."

 

It is the dream of a small developer. Having the big guys throw money all over you for a tiny company because of being too lazy jump in fresh. Easier to buy the competition and douse it with BIG DEV mediocrity. Maybe that's why every game feels the same.

 

Why would major console multiplatform devs/publishers want to "keep up with indie developers"? What would be their logical motivation to even try. Most indie devs can't even keep up with themselves, by the way. These large dev companies are constantly in search of the big fish. The gaming world has become, for better or worse, a AAA industry. These companies are trying to sell 5 million copies of a $59.99 game. However million copies sold of a 0.99c-4.99 is child's play to these people. The next Gears of War, or Halo, or Elder Scrolls, or Bioshock, or Mass Effect, or Call of Duty will crush, in terms of profits, the puny returns created from even a commerically successful iOS app.

Activision looks at the guaranteed sales from BlackOps 2 and laughs at iOS gaming, or even mobile/handheld gaming in general. Even Borderlands 2 and, heck, Homefront 2, will slaughter the best mobile gaming has to offer. Even after you factor in the overhead, by the way. Some of these console games cost more to produce then your typical summer blockbuster movie. Still, it doesn't matter. To legitimate devs, iOS gaming represents the shallow end of the pool and they are too busy diving into the deep end to notice.

Even the PS-Vita and 3DS are going to sink or swim on the strength of their first party support. Third party developers care a little bit. But these are side projects to them. Home console systems butter their bread. 360, Ps3, PC. You think Valve gives a damn about handheld gaming? No. And they ain't exactly alone. Gearbox? Not in the slightest. The lists of devs who just don't care is extremely long.

 

I think that a lot of the issues with iOS gaming is in regards to the pricing. I think that the best way to address the issue is for Apple to take control of the situation. They need to implement designated price points, manage freemium and limit sales.

I think that part of the problem has been created mainly by Gameloft and EA with their every other week .99 sales. You see it all of the time in posts, people not wanting to pay Gameloft's $6.99 and saying they will wait until it drops to $.99; which we all know it will in a few months.

If Apple could somehow turn around the notion that many iOS gamers have of "I'll just wait for the sale", then things may stabilize. If they created a pricing tier that was established for games, and took the decision away from developers (to a degree), then things may stabilize. Developers shouldn't have to feel that they "need" to release a game at $.99 to have a chance. Apple needs to be the bad guy with pricing and managing to have the gaming side of the app store stable.

They could simple introduce the "next step in iOS gaming" in 1 of their presentations. If developers could release games into a system of pricing and not have to try and compete with other developers releasing games for so little, there may be more developers willing to give it a go.

I don't know, just a thought. Apple could really establish themselves as a player in the handheld market if the chose to and addressed the issues that have developed. I think that Apple could actually stick a fork in Nintendo and Sony if they pushed hard enough.

 

^ Well, tiered pricing has been thrown around a few times on this forum, so it's something that's at least being/been discussed a little. I would like for this to happen! Will it? Probably not

I want the saturation problem to be dealt with. So many "devs" release crappy or non-real games into the market hoping for a few bites. All this does is help push actual/good games further down the rankings and/or run people away from gaming on the platform because they no longer trust the AppStore.

But like dumaz100 said, it's about making money and big companies won't make any. This has already been said countless times.

People will even say it doesn't cost that much to make a quality game. Even if it cost a dev $10,000 to make a game, they lose a ton of money when they get less than 1000 sales. Look at the conversion rates for Robohero: It's not the next game changer, but it's a good game. They only sold 300 IAP over 81,000 downloads. (obviously this doesn't reflect every game)

I do still think that big companies wouldn't mind stretching out over mobile/profit off of it. Why bother with releasing games and doing strategic sales?

 

It sure feels this way IMO. I deleted your quote from my quote because I don't see that happening anytime soon, if ever

 

I think iOS gaming is only in it's infancy currently. Games like Anomaly Warzone Earth, Bullet Time HD, Shadowgun, Deadlock, Jetpack Joyride, R-Type and even Gun Bros. all provide hours of satisfying gameplay.

Its only a matter of time until gaming will be streamed from mobile devices onto people's tv sets. I know quite a few people who own 2 to 3 gaming consoles and still play more games on their iDevices.

 

Funny you use that argument. My brother just payed upwards of 500$ for a real camera, even though he owns a perfectly good Android phone that takes fine pictures and video. Reason being, contrary to your assumption, phones aren't nearly on par with devices that are dedicated to what they do. Same goes for gaming. iOS / Android devices do practically everything (which is convenient for a single device), but they do it all midiocrely.

For people who prefer real photography / gaming / movie streaming etc., mobile phones are the wrong way to look. Of course these devices appeal to a large market who just like the convenience (myself included), but they're not much more than that.

EDIT: let me note that I'm well aware that there are some rich experiences on mobile, but I'm speaking more on behalf of console-style games rather than retro goodness and fun mini games.

Even games like ShadowGun (which I'm a fan of) gets horrid reviews. Because it simply can't compete with what it's mimicking. Whether it be because the market base, hardware limitations or everything in between. Even Dead Space on iOS is looking to be a one time deal. Gameloft is still pushing it (even though people love to hate them) but for how long can they keep coming up with new ideas (if they ever had any) and continue to raise the bar while still catering to a very cheap market (not to mention cracker infested).

 

Whenever this topic pops up-every other week it seems-my first reaction is, "Unless you're a developer, what's it matter if it's taken seriously or not?"

When I got my first iPod Touch, back in Aug of '09 I went crazy with the choice of games, and the never ending stream that was being cranked out. From that time until I sold my iPod 4G late last year, I spent approximately 800 bucks on games and a handful of apps. I'd venture to say, I didn't even finish 3/4 of them.

Games like Infinity Blade, Rage and a handful of others which really shine graphically are also enormous battery eaters. I'm fortunate that I can at least have an extra battery with my current phone, and the tablet I have is usually home, but until any iDevice (or Android phone) can go a whole day with playing games, surfing the net, texting, etc, what's the point?

I think gamers, hardcore ones at any rate, forget that the primary purpose of an iPhone is, to you know, be used as a source of communication. I'd have an easier time with this question as it related to an iPad or other tablets, as games on them make more sense-bigger screen, longer battery life, etc.

And if you think battery life is at a premium now, wait until Apple finally gets a 4G capable phone out the door. If I have a choice between playing a game or not having to be near an outlet or PC to charge my phone, I'll forego the game.

Simply because you think iOS gaming isn't being taken seriously, doesn't make it any less valid of a platform. It's a very different medium, and you can't expect it to do everything that a handheld or console does. It has limitations-power source, screen size, over heating are all things to take into consideration. Simply because the technology is there to get to an PS3 level of graphics, does not mean it's feasible. There's a reason consoles have a fan, all that power makes shit get hot. Even now some games can get iDevices toasty warm. How do you think that would be good for the other components in there?

Rather than bitching about what it isn't or why it isn't, how about being happy for what it is?

 

I think App Store is going through a rough time. Like a recession or something like in finances and after big companies like EA, Gameloft and stuff have realized we hate IAPs, small indie devs will soon follow them. I think. Well at least I hope.

 

*FingerCrossing*

 

But honestly, this had been more than a little suicidal for them. How many Devs and publishers went bust because they wagered it all on AAA and lost? You talk about Homefront 2? Well, THQ seems to be on it's last legs, so who knows if there is going to be one. Yea, potential profits are huge, but so are the investments and the risks.
Also, savvy people don't actually pay full price for console games either, what with all the pre-order deals, price-wars, etc.

As to PC gaming, most of the interesting stuff seems to be currently happening in the indie scene anyway.

That is not to say that iOS gaming doesn't have huge problems, but let's not pretend that everything is rosy in the console-land and that it provides an example worthy of emulation .

Also, while people being cheap is a problem, sure, but waiting also results partly from everybody having huge backlogs. Devices being full and no way to back-up saves certainly dampens the impulse to buy new and shiny stuff.

The greatest problem "big" games face on iOS is that of long-term visibility. Appstore needs a premium section, with strongly increased quality and content control from Apple (no shoddy ports from big names, timely updates for OS and device upgrades), price-tying for, like 6 months, etc.

There is currently a niche for quality downloadable content, what with Nintendo and Sony not yet being there for their handhelds in that sense. If only Apple chose to take advantage from it... Sigh.

P.S. There are a lot of genres where buttons are irrelevant and/or far from the best control scheme.

 

I hope too, but not likely

1. This is the heart of the iOS gaming community, but not the determining factor for the success of developers. PC community's hate for consoles/controllers didn't stop that.

2. Let's not forget that while we all hate freemium, the non-gamers that outnumber us 50 - 1, will keep chewing on the bait for many years before growing tired of it. Like trucker hats or R&B artists, there is usually a two year - "wake-up and get your head out of your arse" - cycle before they realized they've been duped.